156gr Oryx, best 6.5 Grendel load ever???

[LRRPF52]

Basically gives you something close to a .30-30 Winchester, which has taken a ton of game reliably since it was introduced almost 125 years ago.

Last time I saw the 156gr Oryx performance on game, it was in Finland in the winter. Guy used a 6.5x55 Mauser and blew a massive hole through a hare that was the size of a small kangaroo.

[bigblock]

You are welcome to sweden, where every gun store has atleast 10 boxes in 6.5 and .30..
Oryx is probably the most used bullet in sweden. Alaska might be more common, but mostly because hunters here is cheap and they probably have the same box since 1960.

there is a nice alternative, Woodleigh 80A or 80B. I shot the 80B (roundnose) in my grendel with a V0 of around 2150-2200.
...

Hello across the pond. If what you say us true, you might see a few Americans make a ballistic pilgrimage to the land of Norma in the near future :-) After my test, I too am a believer in the Oryx. That was just perfect textbook performance, and yet still at such a modest velocity. The accuracy is nothing to turn your nose up at either. There may be others that will perform in the same manner, but for me, for now, it is setting the benchmark to compare to.

Good to know of your experience with the 140gr NP.

I have been looking at those Woodleighs for awhile too. That 80B looks like my kind of bullet! I went to Woodleigh website and its listed as "new" in the table. How new is it? Any idea what the minimum velocity threshold is for performance? Anyone you you know have a tale to tell of their experience with either the 80b or the Oryx?

I am VERY intrigued by Woodleighs Hydrostatically Stabilized lineup! Large blunt frontal area to "core through" incidental trajectory intercepts and to leave good bleeding ENTRANCE wounds and a cavitation face for hydrodynamics in the straight line wound channel, high SD (for a mono') to facilitate the axial stability, enough driving bands to work but w/o the pressures often created by mono's, and at the same time a core diameter that is essentially a bore rider - again to mitigate pressures often seen in mono's and facilitate bore alignment/accuracy... yeah, in my book, they're onto something there!

I actually had a chat with the owner of Lehigh Defense about them making something of that very nature some time ago! Being able to see the vision but not having the depth of ballistic knowledge that I do now I didn't do a very good job of making the pitch I guess.

I'd really like to know more about the 80b and I also will give the Woodleigh HS a serious looking into.

Thank you for sharing your insights on those.

[bigblock]

Basically gives you something close to a .30-30 Winchester, which has taken a ton of game reliably since it was introduced almost 125 years ago.

Last time I saw the 156gr Oryx performance on game, it was in Finland in the winter. Guy used a 6.5x55 Mauser and blew a massive hole through a hare that was the size of a small kangaroo.

Yep on the 30-30 (or especially the 32 WCF in these parts). I remember reading something in the American Rifleman (?) years ago that presented a fact of the staggering number of percent of deer over the course of the United States history that were taken by the 30-30 lever-gun. Although I don't remember the number specifically, it was an overwhelming majority at the time.

Out of concern I may be causing people to infer I am against high-powered cheap rings I have nothing against stiffer calibers and own quite a number of them myself. Rifles are like golf clubs , use right iron for the right shot. Actually waiting right now for my 6.5 PRC barrel to come in. That has been a complete mess, to be honest with you, coming from Columbia River Arms. But that's a story for another day...

And... nothing puts those man-eating Finish hares down like a good stiff serving of a bonded core, ballistic bus :-)

[bigblock]

Basically gives you something close to a .30-30 Winchester, which has taken a ton of game reliably since it was introduced almost 125 years ago.

Last time I saw the 156gr Oryx performance on game, it was in Finland in the winter. Guy used a 6.5x55 Mauser and blew a massive hole through a hare that was the size of a small kangaroo.

Yep on the 30-30, or especially the 32 WS in these parts. We have a very early production Winchester 94 in 32 WS that's been in our family since it was new. Now if THAT rifle could talk... whoo-wee... it was a right if passage to take a deer with that rifle in my lineage. I remember reading something in the American Rifleman (?) years ago that presented a fact of the staggering number of percent of deer over the course of the United States history that were taken by the 30-30 lever-gun. Although I don't remember the number specifically, it was an overwhelming majority at the time.

Out of concern I may be causing readers to infer I am against high-powered chamberings with my ramblings, I have nothing against stiffer calibers and own quite a number of them myself. Rifles are like golf clubs in that one should use right iron for the right shot. Actually waiting right now for my 6.5 PRC barrel to come in. That has been a complete mess, to be honest with you, coming from Columbia River Arms. But that's a story for another day...

And... nothing puts those man-eating Finish hares down like a good stiff serving of a bonded core, ballistic bus :-)

[bigblock]

Interesting and very detailed data. What does a 150gr or 160gr bullet offer that a more common 140gr doesn't?

Thanks, Dinny

Oh, and I forgot another key element... greater inertia. The more inertia, the greater the penetration and/or the ability to resist a change in direction. 140 to 160 is 14% more weight to factor into the inertia...

[jmkhenka]

there is alot of people using Oryx and on the large (only?) forum for hunting/reloading/shooting there is long threads about oryx.

Problem with oryx, and other similar bonded bullets, are that they tend to be harder then other none-bonded bullets like Hornady Roundnose or Lapua Mega.

The round nose makes for better expansion at lower velocities, but they can be quite "wet" at higher velocities to, but at the same time there is alot of reports of the Oryx just acting like a FMJ and making a 6.5mm hole through the target.

In sweden there is weight and energy requirements for hunting what we call "Class 1" animals - moose, bear, wild pigs, vincent, mufflon, wolf, deer (deer as in those with big horns, not roe or white tail afaik) those are as follow:
140 grain bullet with Energy at 100 meters of 1991 ft/lbs (or 2700 joule)
156 grain bullet with energy at 100 meters of 1475 ft/lbs (or 2000 joule)

As you can see, that classifies the grendel at a lower "class" or 2, that includes all other animals in sweden.
I lack around 330 fps to make the WL 160 class 1, but i knew this when i got the rifle. I have a 308 that fills that role, and the grendel replaced my 6.5x55 that i mainly used for smaller animals - roe, capercaillie, fox, rabits etc.
In sweden we have a tradition of "top bird" hunting. that essentialy means hunting forest birds like capercaillie from long range - 100-250 meter generaly with shots on birds that sit in the tree crowns.
This is mainly done in the winter dec-jan when there is alot of snow. For this grendel works wonders, lower speeds means less risk of exploding birds and the smaller rifle/system makes for a compact rifle.
222/223 is to high velocity calibers to be used - one wrong shot and you dont have anything to bring home. 6.5x55 is by tradition the most used for this, but the velocities are tooo high 800-900 for light bullets, and at close range its to mean to the birds. Also never got the 100 FMJ or similar bullets to shoot any good in the x55 with low speeds, 8.66" twist barrel and all.

[Happy2Shoot]

In sweden we have a tradition of "top bird" hunting. that essentialy means hunting forest birds like capercaillie from long range - 100-250 meter generaly with shots on birds that sit in the tree crowns.

I laughed when I read this. If a game warden or cop saw you doing that here you would be in jail, or at least have a very unpleasant conversation. Less people, less worries I guess. I won't shoot a deer on a ridge-line even on private property for fear of where that bullet will go.

[bigblock]

there is alot of people using Oryx and on the large (only?) forum for hunting/reloading/shooting there is long threads about oryx.

Problem with oryx, and other similar bonded bullets, are ....

Interesting that some have experienced poor upset with the Oryx. Are those failures prone in any particular caliber that you're aware of? Granted my trial was with only 2 rounds, but both rounds clearly showed early upset in less than 30mm of bare gel and of course the recovered bullets spoke decidedly of their performance.

But yes, even my one gel test of the 160gr Hornady RN showed that it is definitely softer constructed than the Oryx, in 6.5mm anyway. I’m confident HRN would perform quite well at the Grendel velocities with RL17 inside 200 yards. If I can get it to shoot well, I will try it at 200+ in gel. The bore-rider profile of the HRN also makes it loadable for mag-length in an AR with a normally throated chamber. Again, if it shoots well enough, the 160gr HRN appears as it may be a reliable, inexpensive, available, and domestic option for putting medium sized game down inside 200 yards/m with the Grendel, via RL17.

The Lapua Mega seems as it might be a very good performer for the Grendel velocity capable with RL17 as well. I do like the flat meplat even better than the RN and it appears to be soft enough for the velocity/range envelope I'm interested in. Do you know of anyone who might have that bullet in 6.5 who could take a measurement of the diameter beyond the top cannelure, and progressing up to the ogive? If it’s full caliber diameter in that region I suspect it would sit too far back in the case of the Grendel and not be a good option.

In my mind, a monolithic, "wadcutter" profile, that is heavy for caliber, bore riding for mag/chamber length loading, and moving along at a MV of 2200 to 2400 fps might be the “ideal” bullet. The BC-to-weight-to-SD ratio of 6.5mm bullet diamter is the ideal-in-my-mind suitor of that design as well. That said, the roadmap leads back to the Woodleigh HS.

Now that the Grendel appears to be a viable option for my hunting application, I'm also toying with a meaningful/repeatable "deflection test" of these different bullets, in terms of incidental trajectory intercept (i.e. brush collision in flight), to compare their performance to. I understand the theory of how high SD bullets, obtuse meplats, in conjunction with moderate velocities are regarded as "brush bucking" but I'm curious as to exactly how scalar those differences are and which variable is the most impactful.

Well... I was considering buying pressure testing equipment, but I’m finding my ramblings here pointing to purchasing several hundred dollars of bullets instead! There are the pragmatists that will read this tripe and froth at the mouth and say, “Just buy a box of HRN, invest the saved money in your retirement, and the saved time hunting you idiot!” Yeah, there might be a case for that… but I’m finding I like experimenting with ballistics as much as the hunting… and I’m not sure the world will be still spinning when I retire anyway.

Anyway… very insightful about hunting in Sweden. The "top bird" hunting is a very intriguing endeavor on many levels. Takes pretty good skill in the middle of a Swedish winter to take such a small target in the field, in a tree, at those ranges. But yes, in many parts of the US that type of undertaking would be ill-advised for the population density. As you have minimum ballistic requirements there, in may places in the US we have maximum ballistic limitations, again, due to the population density. Glad I live in place where I *could* play top bird... if only we had such a bird. The capercaillie is intriguing all by itself. I'll 'fess-up... I had to look that up. Around these parts we'd see such a creature and have to accuse a tom turkey of having visited mrs partridge (ruffed grouse) after a wet night at the pub

[jmkhenka]

Thing with top-bird (toppfågel in swedish) is that normaly capercaillie and black grouse are ground living birds. But during winter and snow covered ground, they sit in the tree tops eating pine.
That makes them easy to spot at long ranges, most never take shots over 200 meters and considering you need to ski (using powered vehicles are illegal in hunting) or snow shoes you really need to have good nerves.

The capercaille is big, but you dont want to hit the breast as thats where all the food is. Often people use FMJ or hard match-bullerts (hpbt). Earlier during the fall you can hunt both male and female but then you need to either walk alot or have a dog.

In sweden we have large traditions of using dogs in hunting, and in this situation we use variations of Finnish spitz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Spitz), they find the birds on the ground and push them into the trees, where you then can shoot them with rifle on relatively short distances - 50-75m often.

Toppfågel hunting is considered the most demanding of all the hunting methods in sweden. Both in regards to hunters condition, and in the equipment - accuracy needs to be at most MOA in conditions down to -30 Cels, with first shot.
You seldom get a 2nd shot, but sometimes you can take 10 shots without them moving

Northern parts of sweden is sparsly populated, unless you are on the coastline (top 1/3rd part of sweden) you can have 10s of km of free range for shooting but you need to be carefull nevertheless.