BCA vs Group Barrel - My Adventures with 6.5 Grendel

[1Shot]

I also went through the shotgun patterning BCA sending it back barrel replacement hassle. Yes I wasted enough ammo, gas etc. to have purchased a much better upper. You live and learn. It took around 100 rounds through the replaced BCA barrel to get it to shoot consistently under MOA and seems the more I shoot it the better it gets. It is picky as to what handload it wants to shoots. Built a AR using an 18" Oden Works barrel combo package and it shot great from the beginning. Ammo does make a huge difference. Both of my rifles just does not like the Hornady 123 SST bullet in any form, factory or many handload recipes. You live and learn. If I had it to do over I would purchase a high quality barrel and build from scratch and end up satisfied with probably less money involved.

[Hollis]

Hollis,

The 20" barrel will get you to a 1,000 (just) but the bullets will be going slower than a wet week. They will be pushed around by the wind and starting to go wobbly. Your 7X scope will be struggling. I recommend at least 20X and upward. I used a Leupold 20X in F Class for several years and it was OK. My fellow shooters used higher magnifications. 7X might not be good enough to see the spotters on the target. If you are using electronic targets or steel this is less of an issue although even with steel splash you might not see it at 1,000.

AR's are light-weight guns with typically rounded handguards. Neither of which is suited to long range shooting. But, it depends on what you are expecting and whether you are competing with anything or anyone else. Don't let all this put you off though...With a big enough target you will hit it every time and as the old saying goes, 'every shot makes someone happy'.

I'm interested to see how far I can go out with this upper on my AR. I got out to 400+ yards with my 7.65x39 with cheap ammo hitting a 12" target 3 out of 6 times and 100% for distances under 400. I already shot the BCA SS Grendel at 425 yards - 2 shots cold barrel shooting at 2 separate targets that resulted in 2 dead center bullseyes (or at least where I had the small orange dots painted on the metal targets).



I was really excited but then I started having problems the next time I shot - until now.

I do have other scopes (SWFA 10x for my 243 that shoots wonderfully and an off brand scope that I really love that has magnification up to 18x). I was using the 7x scope this last time just to reduce variables (same lower, same scope, same scope mount, same bipod, …. I'm going to go out further the next chance I get with my 18x scope and see how it works. But that's the scope that I was using when I would start missing after 300 yards.

[FLshooter]

I would not call a BCA barrel heavy.Medium contour at best. BCA gas blocks are three-quarter Inch meaning barrels are less than that at the muzzle.Heavy is .920 at muzzle.

[Hollis]

I would not call a BCA barrel heavy.Medium contour at best. BCA gas blocks are three-quarter Inch meaning barrels are less than that at the muzzle.Heavy is .920 at muzzle.

One of the uppers I bought from BCA did say it was Heavy Barrel (4150 Steel Heavy Barrel) in the specs. I went back and looked at the Grendel though and it did not state Heavy Barrel, so I must have mixed them up. But it does appear that BCA does have at least some Heavy Barrels.

[Appended in edit] I also compared my BCA SS barrel to the Group Barrel and it is much thicker and heavier. It looks and feels like an HBAR to me, but I'm no expert.

[Hollis]

Why did you pay a dollar a round for ammo? You can find hornady eld-m and hornady American gunner for well under a dollar a round. For like years now.

Ammoseek.com is your freind.

A5BLASTER,

Help me out here. I went to Ammoseek to see if I could get ELD Black for 6.5 Grendel at a rate "well under a dollar" as you mentioned just to see if I was missing something. The lowest price I found was with GrabAGun. It sold for $16.49 for a box of 20. That sounds good! But then you have to pay $13 for shipping and then tax on top of that. If I buy 200 rounds to reduce the cost per round for the shipping it comes out to $192.56. That's just a few cents below a buck a shot.

What am I missing? (I am able to get deals at times for the Hornady American Gunner for $.75 when bought in bulk, or, as I mentioned, buy the ELD Match at Academy when I gave good discount coupons, but I can't find how to get ELD Match at a good price online.)

[lazyengineer]

A5BLASTER,

Help me out here. I went to Ammoseek to see if I could get ELD Black for 6.5 Grendel at a rate "well under a dollar" as you mentioned just to see if I was missing something. The lowest price I found was with GrabAGun. It sold for $16.49 for a box of 20. That sounds good! But then you have to pay $13 for shipping and then tax on top of that. If I buy 200 rounds to reduce the cost per round for the shipping it comes out to $192.56. That's just a few cents below a buck a shot.

What am I missing? (I am able to get deals at times for the Hornady American Gunner for $.75 when bought in bulk, or, as I mentioned, buy the ELD Match at Academy when I gave good discount coupons, but I can't find how to get ELD Match at a good price online.)

You're not missing anything. 6.5 Grendel Hornady brass ammo in-hand is nominally $1 a round. It's by no means casually available at $0.75/round after tax and shipping. With a lot of hard look at hitting the sales just right, and buying in bulk; it can be had for close to it if you time it just right. But it wasn't really accurate to imply doing so is readily available - you aren't doing anything wrong.

I've already gone through about 2500 rounds of Grendel ammo. If I were paying retail prices, that would have been pricey. I use a lot of Wolf Steel, and I reload a lot. I shoot very little factory ammo Grendel; as it's quite expensive.

[A5BLASTER]

You're not missing anything. 6.5 Grendel Hornady brass ammo in-hand is nominally $1 a round. It's by no means casually available at $0.75/round after tax and shipping. With a lot of hard look at hitting the sales just right, and buying in bulk; it can be had for close to it if you time it just right. But it wasn't really accurate to imply doing so is readily available - you aren't doing anything wrong.

I've already gone through about 2500 rounds of Grendel ammo. If I were paying retail prices, that would have been pricey. I use a lot of Wolf Steel, and I reload a lot. I shoot very little factory ammo Grendel; as it's quite expensive.

Really cause I'm not seeing it priced at a dollar a round. I don't count the cost of shipping and tax in the price of the ammo because that's just part of doing business online.

If I buy a box of ammo online and it's priced at 75 cents a round, well that's what I payed for it.

If you find a box of ammo on the shelf your going to pay tax's on it as well and that adds to the overall price. Doesn't it?

Guess it's all in how you look at it. But if it's labeled as 75 or 65 or 25 cents a round that's what your paying for it. To me tax's and shipping fees doesn't figure into it. Your going to pay that No matter where you buy the ammo.

Some stores charge higher tax's on off the shelf items then some online retailers charge for tax's and shipping.

Like I said it's all how you look at it.

[Hollis]

Really cause I'm not seeing it priced at a dollar a round. I don't count the cost of shipping and tax in the price of the ammo because that's just part of doing business online.

If I buy a box of ammo online and it's priced at 75 cents a round, well that's what I payed for it.

If you find a box of ammo on the shelf your going to pay tax's on it as well and that adds to the overall price. Doesn't it?

Guess it's all in how you look at it. But if it's labeled as 75 or 65 or 25 cents a round that's what your paying for it. To me tax's and shipping fees doesn't figure into it. Your going to pay that No matter where you buy the ammo.

Some stores charge higher tax's on off the shelf items then some online retailers charge for tax's and shipping.

Like I said it's all how you look at it.

When comparing prices I add up every penny charged divided by the number of rounds purchasing. That's also the number I keep in mind as the cost of every pull of the trigger. I make the same calculation buying online or at retail store. Not too long ago, most online stores didn't charge tax but that seems to have changed recently. No tax gave online shopping an advantage to offset shipping charges, but now, with both tax and shipping fees on top of that, it's not such a good deal.

I'm an engineer/math teacher (love numbers) and a cheapskate (that results from the fact that I don't have an overabundance of disposable income), so I crunch the numbers to consider every penny out of my wallet to make a purchase.

[FLshooter]

Hollis, I use AmmoSeek and find the ammo or reloading component I want at the lowest price. Then I called Bass Pro shops and find out if they have it. They will price match any Internet store. You end up paying tax but no shipping or hazard fee. Best part you got to take it home right away.

[Hollis]

Hollis, I use AmmoSeek and find the ammo or reloading component I want at the lowest price. Then I called Bass Pro shops and find out if they have it. They will price match any Internet store. You end up paying tax but no shipping or hazard fee. Best part you got to take it home right away.

Thanks for that tip! I'll try to take advantage, although Bass Pro Shop doesn't have the best selection of ammo that I like to shoot.

I just received another Academy coupon today - $25 off of purchase of more than $25. I don't like playing the coupon game, but I make an exception for Academy. I regularly get coupons as good as cash for good chunks of money. If I use the coupon along with catching stuff I want on sell, it really is much cheaper than online.

[Lastrites]

Hollis, I use AmmoSeek and find the ammo or reloading component I want at the lowest price. Then I called Bass Pro shops and find out if they have it. They will price match any Internet store. You end up paying tax but no shipping or hazard fee. Best part you got to take it home right away.

So you flash them the AmmoSeek price from your phone and essentially cash out?

[FLshooter]

So you flash them the AmmoSeek price from your phone and essentially cash out?

No,not that simple.
You go to the service desk to check out with the item.You tell them who has the item and their price.They look it up and get a manager?s approval. So far they have matched every price for me. I mostly do bullets powder and miscellaneous reloading items. I know guys who price match scopes and rifles.As long as it?s legitimate they will match it. I heard that if the price is too low they will come close as they can.
As far as ammo for the 6.5 Grendel. Store I go to which is in Palmbay Florida does not have a huge selection. But if I go to the Orlando store they have a much larger selection of everything. I call firs,to avoid wasting my time and gas.

[Wanderson]

Surprising that Bass Pro will price match an internet deal, I don’t know of any store that does that.

Even PSA’s store doesn’t honor their own website deals anymore. A few years ago I’d see a good deal, run to the store and if it was in stock they’d price match. Now they claim it’s ‘a different part number’ even when it’s the same item. Last time I tried that they had a handgun listed on sale for $125 off and I found one at my local store but at full price. When I asked, was told if I want it on sale I have to order it on line and have it shipped, they wouldn’t discount the one in the case. Lesson learned.

Ammoseek shows Hornady Black ELD for 75-80 cents a round from SGAmmo, Carolina Munitions and a few more. But yea, I factor in shipping costs as well so that could add a dime a round to cost. Still cheaper than what I can get locally by the box. And at 3x the cost of Wolf steel, I’m shooting a lot of it these days. Want to try the new Barnaul stuff too and see if it’s noticeably better, In other calibers Barnaul ammo is my choice for bang for the buck.

Glad to hear a good BCA story. I like mine.

[Lastrites]

The ft.lauderdale BP doesn't carry 6.5 g, most everything else though. Good to know and thanks for posting!

[Hollis]

I'll be sharing it with you as soon as I can process and organize. Spoiler alert - the group barrel has "caught up" with, if not surpassed (0 MOA?), the BCA SS barrel!

[Hollis]

I started off shooting my 7.62x39 to get comfortable and test some things out (it's a lot cheaper figuring things out at 25 cents a shot with this round) and took my 4.5-18x scope off my 6.5 Creedmoor and put in in my AR mount to use on all 3 uppers I was shooting today.

This time I started with my BCA SS barrel and ended with the Group Barrel. I discovered the more I shot and started to calm down and focus, I started to get in a zone. Here's the pics of the "warm-up" shots before trying to group.



When I moved over to the more powerful scope that I had used in the past when I would start missing at 300+ yards, I first started with groups that were more like 2" plus. But I realized that after a while, I got in a "zone" - where everything was real comfortable, I was easily able to hold on the center of the target with no movement of aim and that's when I start shooting sub 1 MOA groups. Once I realized things felt really good, I switched over to my target to shoot groups of 3 (the second group looks like 2 shots but is three). I got two good groups with the stainless steel barrel and then moved over to the group barrel.



After adjusting for the new zero (moved same scope with same mount to the upper with the Group Barrel) I shot the two groups with the Group Barrel on my "warm up targets" (labeled Group Barrel 1 and 2 in the first pic at top, shown again in the top row below). The second of these only has two shots. I ran out of Grendel ammo at the bench and I needed to go to my car to get more ammo. Cease fire was called at the range and then I didn't shoot the third shot since these were just making sure all was good with the new setup. I didn't realize those two shots were touching until later. I wished I had shot the third shot in the group after the cease fire. But I moved to the target designated for shooting 3 shot groups (see below). All of these are 3 shot groups (except the one as stated) but I seem to consistently put 2 of the three shots of the group in basically the same hole. I was planning on capturing my shots on video today but couldn't find my camera and the wind was so bad that I scrapped that plan. I wish I would have though. Some of these really look like one hole unless I get up really close to examine.



I moved out to 200 yards with Group Barrel and found new zero and shot the 5.5" target to see if I could consistently hit it. One bit of good news here though is that I had put in data from my last time to fine tune my calculations in Strelok app to calculate droppage and the first shot I shot was the one closest to the bullseye (right on target!). The bad news though is that I thought it looked like there was a hole right near bulls eye but couldn't tell for sure since contacts were blurry due to wind. I then shot some more and fooled with the zero not realizing I had it right the first time! I was planning on trying to focus and group at 200 yards but time ran out and the 200 yard range closed.

My goal now is to work on being able to be "in the zone" on the first shot instead of having to "warm up."

Sorry for being long winded, but, for those who are interested, here it is! Open to suggestions for improvement!

[NugginFutz]

Nice write up, Hollis.

You're absolutely right about "being in the zone". Calm mind, steady hands, intent focus.

I had tested some of the Hornady AG and the new ELM through my 22" BHW for comparison, but was disappointed with the AG group. I thought about it, and realized I had been more concerned about printing small groups than I was about breaking the shot. I refocused and shot the same ammo again, but with my mind cleared of any concerns about group sizes. I was only focused on THIS shot and not the next, nor did I watch impacts while shooting. Results were clearly better.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15291[/ATTACH]

Top Right AG group was first, Top Left was the reshoot.

[FLshooter]

The ft.lauderdale BP doesn't carry 6.5 g, most everything else though. Good to know and thanks for posting!

Oh well.
But they do carry most brands of gum powder. And the good thing about price matching powder, there is no hazard fee. They probably carry Grendel ammo online not sure if you can price match it if you order it delivered to the store but then that would defeat the purpose of not having to wait.

[Hollis]

Nice write up, Hollis.

You're absolutely right about "being in the zone". Calm mind, steady hands, intent focus.

I had tested some of the Hornady AG and the new ELM through my 22" BHW for comparison, but was disappointed with the AG group. I thought about it, and realized I had been more concerned about printing small groups than I was about breaking the shot. I refocused and shot the same ammo again, but with my mind cleared of any concerns about group sizes. I was only focused on THIS shot and not the next, nor did I watch impacts while shooting. Results were clearly better.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15291[/ATTACH]

Top Right AG group was first, Top Left was the reshoot.

Nice shooting! Was this at 100 yards?

I just shoot groups of 3 because if I shoot 5, I'm scared I'm going to pull one and mess up an otherwise excellent group. As I build confidence and skill level, I'll go back to shooting groups of 5. That's definitely more impressive and better indication if you just got lucky or the gun and you are precise.

Your being out of the zone is better than me in the zone! Let's me know I have lots of room for improvement! But shooting tight groups at paper at 100 yards is just to show me that me, my gun and the ammo have enough precision to move on to shooting metal targets at distance. Then the next step is being able to hit prey at whatever distance (once I get a chance to go hunting). Then I want to be able to shoot off-hand accurately and a lot of other things. But one step at a time!

[NugginFutz]

Nice shooting! Was this at 100 yards?

I just shoot groups of 3 because if I shoot 5, I'm scared I'm going to pull one and mess up an otherwise excellent group. As I build confidence and skill level, I'll go back to shooting groups of 5. That's definitely more impressive and better indication if you just got lucky or the gun and you are precise.

Your being out of the zone is better than me in the zone! Let's me know I have lots of room for improvement! But shooting tight groups at paper at 100 yards is just to show me that me, my gun and the ammo have enough precision to move on to shooting metal targets at distance. Then the next step is being able to hit prey at whatever distance (once I get a chance to go hunting). Then I want to be able to shoot off-hand accurately and a lot of other things. But one step at a time!

Thanks. Yes, those were shot at 100.

If I had any advice to offer, it is this: don’t cheap out on any key components. Optics, barrel, trigger. Buy once, cry once. Go cheap, and you will die the death of a thousand cuts. For my own experience, anytime I rolled the dice on low end components, I ultimately ended up buying the high end unit at a net loss. This was true for rifle scopes, spotting scopes, you name it.

Anyway, enjoy your journey and shoot straight!