Post your C.B.O.L.

[grayfox]

C4 (an apt shortening of the screen name) you sound more and more like a troll to me.
When you get something worthwhile to say I might listen in.
Until then ramble on...

[Code4]

Omg another long time member trying to establish dominance.
Guess what ?

[LR1955]

Every Forum has its own culture, usually dominated by long time contributors who think they are special because they have few other avenues to express themselves. Klem was just having a free kick at a newbie and being generally non helpful. You've joined the feeding frenzy in support of your friend. Commendable but archaic. A good way to stagnate a forum.
PLaced on my ignore list too.

Code4:

You need to cool your jets. That is a pretty insane statement to make about Grayfox, A5B, and Klem.

They are not picking an argument with you. They are pointing out inherent problems with what you are asking.

Maybe you ought to say why you would like such info?

LR55

[LR1955]

C4 (an apt shortening of the screen name) you sound more and more like a troll to me.
When you get something worthwhile to say I might listen in.
Until then ramble on...

GF:

Troll? Give me a break. If you don't like what the dude writes, you don't have to read or respond.

LR55

[Klem]

Mate,

Please understand that you started the thread asking us to go to some effort. Where I am coming from is that if we are going to do this then let's at least make it worthwhile, for all of us. What seems to have occurred is you wrote a cheque your experience can't cash and have thrown down your toys when someone asked you to explain. You are not entitled to this (private) information, nor are you entitled to our effort. When you ask for something expect that we will get interested and want to get involved - ask what it is for. The cost for something you are not entitled to is that you need to explain yourself... without getting upset.

Now, I have given you my COAL's for 10 bullets. This is my private data and represents effort. I would be grateful if you do the same. Note how in every case the magazine is the limiting factor where jump is concerned. The one that is closest to the lands is the Hornady 95gn which is a short stubby bullet, but even at mag length there is only 4mm of shank in contact with the case neck. Neck tension is now an issue, especially in auto loaders.

Here's my data again with an extra column for the amount of bullet in contact with the case, when seated to max mag length. Anything less than the diameter of the calibre (6.5mm), especially in an auto loader is cause for concern. If you can't crimp to make up the neck-tension difference then I worry that the bullet might shift before firing. So the two lightest rounds with 4mm of contact will need to be seated deeper, which means more jump. I think neck tension is more important than jump in this case so it's the lesser of two evils.

Back to the original request for bullet seating against the lands info - It's all moot in my gun. It's either mag limit or even less... What about yours?

[Code4]

Code4:

Maybe you ought to say why you would like such info?

LR55

Thx LR1955. Trying to get some idea of throat length in the Howa factory barrel and CZ barrels as well. ie Some form of reference before I start reloading for my Howa Grendel. I realize there are variations but factory barrels (even aftermarket barrels for bolt guns must have some kind of standardization even if it's to SAAMI spec.

[Lemonaid]

Here are my measurements of three different Grendel barrels, OAL to touch the lands.

BCA---------------------------------------------------------RAP---------------Monster 20

Hornady 95 V-Max 2.267 2.286 2.235 full neck 2.165

Hornady 123 Eld Match 2.298 2.330 2.289

Sierra 142 MK------ 2.367 2.330

Sierra 130 GC 2.375? 2.413 2.389

Sierra 120 MK 2.330 2.292 2.265

Sierra 120 Pro Hunter 2.280 2.261 2.242

Sierra 107 MK 2.340 2.364 2.335

Speer 140 Hot cor beyond mag len 2.303 2.297

Speer 90 TNT 2.290 (full in neck 2.190) 2.290 2.260

Speer 120 gold dot beyond 2.312 2.369 2.345

Match Monster 100 gn 2.150(full in neck 2.150) 2.320 2.270

Match Monster 123 gn beyond 2.300 2.294 2.269

Nosler 90 Varmageddon --------------------------------------------------2.340 full neck 2.270

Barnes 120 Match Burner --------------------------------------------------2.275

From my experience you need to measure the bullets in your grendel as there is a lot of differences between barrels.
The above data can help with bullet selection if you want bullets that will fit the magazine, be close to the lands and be seated fully in the neck.
Note that the Sierra 120 Pro hunter loaded for the Monster 20 barrel if seated to mag length (2.260 to 2.290) would be jammed in the lands and could be dangerous.
Safe shooting all!

[Code4]

Thx Lemonaid. I can work with that.

[LR1955]

Thx LR1955. Trying to get some idea of throat length in the Howa factory barrel and CZ barrels as well. ie Some form of reference before I start reloading for my Howa Grendel. I realize there are variations but factory barrels (even aftermarket barrels for bolt guns must have some kind of standardization even if it's to SAAMI spec.

C4:

Good stuff. Now that guys know why you want such data, I am sure they will respond.

LR55

[Sinclair]

Omg another long time member trying to establish dominance.
Guess what ?

Code4, I am not a long time member here, in fact I haven't been here much longer than you. That said, I am an old codger that has seen more than his share of that smelly, brown stuff you often find in a baby's diaper. You are asking the wrong question. As a retired Tool and Die Maker, I can assure you that if you can find two chambers that measure the exact same dimensions, you were not using a sensitive enough instrument. Therefore the question that you should be asking is 'what means do you use to determine the CBTO length for your rifle'? Any data that these guys give to you will be next to useless unless your chamber EXCACTLY matches theirs. If you want Proof, I have anecdotal information In regards to Olin's attempt to produce the most accurate .45 Auto Match ammo. The correlation between their efforts and our efforts to produce the most accurate ammo is apples to apples. We seek the most elusive of goals.

[Code4]

Thx Sinclair. Nicely put. Once I get fireformed cases I will try this method:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWmIwPwLyyg

(Will I be wading through smelly brown stuff doing it that way ?) Luv your turn of phrase.

Lemonaids data should give me somewhere to expect to find my CBOL ??

[Texkitch]

Code4 - the RASP split neck method I used is shown in this thread. Simple and will give you some data to compare to the method in the video you linked.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...-amp-crimp

[Klem]

The Hornady gauge is more reliable. You are not pushing and pulling the bullet as you try to extract it, where even the slightest movement makes a big difference to the usefulness of the measurement.

[Sinclair]

Well, I think that you have the starting point you were seeking. These guys have been very helpful to me, just give them a chance. Do not hold anything back, it makes you look like you are trolling.

[riuma]

Living dangerously my freind.

And how is that?~Riuma

[A5BLASTER]

And how is that?~Riuma

You do realize that not knowing where a bullet sits in relation to the lands is dangerous right?

Seating bullets by what the mag allows is not very safe. Just because it fits the mag doesn't mean it fits the chamber without jamming the lands.

And that goes for bolt actions as well as ar mags.

I just finished doing my measurements tonight on my cz grendel with all the bullets I have on hand for loading. Several of them would be jammed into the lands long before I reached the max coal of 2.300 that the cz mag allows.

So if I followed what you said you do I would be jamming bullets into the lands. I guess that's fine if you like loading that way. But to me that just comes off as dangerous too do. Seems like setting a loads coal length without knowing if it's jamming the lands is going at it with half the needed info.

[Code4]

Well, I think that you have the starting point you were seeking. These guys have been very helpful to me, just give them a chance. Do not hold anything back, it makes you look like you are trolling.

You can join the other three on my ignore list.

[Klem]

How anyone can possibly take offence at Sinclair's post is beyond me.

I have deleted my data from this thread.

[Sinclair]

Code4, I am confused by your remark. I was congratulating you upon, what appeared to me as a successful quest for information. I now wonder if you might have been potty trained at gun point?

Please ignore this remark as it is obvious that we cannot find a middle ground for civil exchange of information.

Klem, thank you for your support. It has now become obvious to me that every so often someone with an attitude has to intrude upon our normally good natured forum where the "seniors" willingly relate their experiences to help to the newbies. As my grandfather used to say," why reinvent the wheel?"

[LR1955]

Guys:

Keep it focused on the topic.

LR55