Devils advocate

[Sixoeight]

Fair enough. I choose 5.56 for every role except for a dedicated DMR/RECCE AR rifle, because that's where the strengths of the Grendel really come through. If we really want to play devils advocate we should ask ourselves the reasons why we're choosing the Grendel, and then why 5.56 won't satisfy those reasons.

As much as I think caliber fights are short sighted...I think this is misguided.

Name one real world use where 5.56 works better than Grendel.

Ballistically the Grendel is better in basically every single way. If ammo were the same price and just as available for each I think the 5.56 would be rarely purchased. We could get into high capacity mag reliability but that's mostly solved with the new mags and not really a caliber related topic more an equipment one.

If Grendel had been around when the military chose 5.56 I suspect it would be the NATO choice. The fact that it wasn't is the only reason why 5.56 is even produced.

[wrhoads]

As much as I think caliber fights are short sighted...I think this is misguided.

Name one real world use where 5.56 works better than Grendel.

Ballistically the Grendel is better in basically every single way. If ammo were the same price and just as available for each I think the 5.56 would be rarely purchased. We could get into high capacity mag reliability but that's mostly solved with the new mags and not really a caliber related topic more an equipment one.

If Grendel had been around when the military chose 5.56 I suspect it would be the NATO choice. The fact that it wasn't is the only reason why 5.56 is even produced.

I'm not arguing that the 5.56 is better ballistically in any way in comparison to the grendel, because it's not. I'm playing devil's advocate and trying to say that 5.56 will fit the bill the majority of the time. The point I'm trying to make is that the 5.56 is good enough

[LRRPF52]

I like 5.56 a lot, and I have about half/half right now in my arms room.

I stopped reloading for .223 Rem since my hand loads are focused on the DM, 200-600yd ranges, where I'm wasting my time when I have loads and loads of 6.5mm bullets and cases in bins and shelves.

[RMiller]

Another reason for 5.56 is reloadable factory ammo is cheap and I often like to reload them into 25-45 Sharps.

[Keef]

My cousin brought his 16" .556 down(I don't own any .556 guns) to shoot some steel with me and it was pathetic compared to a 12" grendel even at 100yrds. At 300 you could barely tell the .556 was hitting it while you had to wait for it to stop swinging with the grendel. If you shoot paper I guess it doesn't matter. If you shoot steel or live animals the Grendel 100%.

[A5BLASTER]

Another reason for 5.56 is reloadable factory ammo is cheap and I often like to reload them into 25-45 Sharps.

I kind of wanted to do a 25 grendel based on the same bullets sharps loads for their 25x45 but I didn't cause it really doesn't give me anything the grendel doesn't already do for me.

As far as 556 vs 6.5 I choose the 6.5 and sold all my 556 guns, just something about 100 grain and higher weight bullets that trip my trigger that 55 throw 80 grains doesnt.

[bj139]

I kind of wanted to do a 25 grendel based on the same bullets sharps loads for their 25x45 but I didn't cause it really doesn't give me anything the grendel doesn't already do for me.

As far as 556 vs 6.5 I choose the 6.5 and sold all my 556 guns, just something about 100 grain and higher weight bullets that trip my trigger that 55 throw 80 grains doesnt.

The bullet diameter difference between 6.5mm and 25cal is .007".
Combined with the better bullets available in 6.5mm it hardly seems worthwhile as you stated.
Between 6mm and 25cal is .014", double the difference.

[Sinclair]

While I’m still relatively new to the 6.5 I’m VERY happy and impressed. What I’d like to see is reasons to stay with 5.56 over the Grendel. I’ll probably always have both just looking for some talking points for the future.

1) 5.56 is lighter means can carry more ammo

2) more/better mags for 5.56-i prefer Magpul or Lancer

3) Ammo price/availablity I shoot a lot of Wolf Gold 5.56 steel case is gross

Looking for ways around these.

First of all everything has been fairly well covered, so I will address the SHTF scenario. When I first went into the service they were still issuing Garands. I was 5'6 1/2" tall and weighed 132 #, I regularly carried a 60 or 80 rnd ammo belt plus an 80 rnd bandolier and sometimes 2 bandoliers of 30-06! Much heavier that the Grendel.

Mags are like the ammo, how many are you going to need? One in your weapon and 4 to 6 on you.

The price of ammo, you are probably not going to be doing any reloading so why pick up your brass? Wolf steel is very cheap and throw away cases. No need too worry about wearing out your rifle with the steel cases, just staying alive and one step ahead to the bad guys is going to be good enough.


As has already been said, evaluate your situation, choose the best options, and forget the rest. To my knowledge there has not been a single instance of a do all in every scenario weapon in all of history. How long has the Air Force been searching for the perfect survival gun for Air Crews?

[Dempsy1]

First of all everything has been fairly well covered, so I will address the SHTF scenario. When I first went into the service they were still issuing Garands. I was 5'6 1/2" tall and weighed 132 #, I regularly carried a 60 or 80 rnd ammo belt plus an 80 rnd bandolier and sometimes 2 bandoliers of 30-06! Much heavier that the Grendel.

Mags are like the ammo, how many are you going to need? One in your weapon and 4 to 6 on you.

The price of ammo, you are probably not going to be doing any reloading so why pick up your brass? Wolf steel is very cheap and throw away cases. No need too worry about wearing out your rifle with the steel cases, just staying alive and one step ahead to the bad guys is going to be good enough.


As has already been said, evaluate your situation, choose the best options, and forget the rest. To my knowledge there has not been a single instance of a do all in every scenario weapon in all of history. How long has the Air Force been searching for the perfect survival gun for Air Crews?

I think what I failed to make clear is that I like and prefer the Grendel, but due to the short comings I listed I cannot get rid of 5.55, I’m not running 3 gun matches with my current grendel ammo-I’d have to switch wolf steel-which I may try but just don’t like. I also just don’t feel as comfortable with the Grendel mags. If those issues were resolved I’d probably get rid of 5.56

[Sticks]

I have two 5.56 uppers. My 16" middy that was my very first one, and even though it is a pig of a rifle at 9#, and running a Centurion C4 quad rail that was the top of the A list at the time, I just can't part with it. Course I have not fired a round out of it in 2 years.

My other is an 18" Mk12 with a Compass Lake barrel, also by Centurion. Year and a half since it was shot, and keeping it for the AR15 matches (5.56 only) that happen 2x per year.

In a realistic collapse of govt, infrastructure, and civil law...let's be honest with ourselves. Your favorite rifle that you built, love, rigged, trained and stockpiled ammo for is going to get a battlefield trade off as you are moving along.

If you need to grab and go, you are not taking the 10k rounds of ammo with you. Lucky if you take 240, and I bet you start dropping excess weight real quick. If you should be so unfortunate as to have to deploy said weapon, and run your ammo supply down to a mag and a half, maybe two, and you come across a rotting corpse with some other rifle or carbine that has 100 rounds on it. You are dropping your baby and picking up the other.

As far as deficiencies listed, I don't know that any are really deficiencies.

Mag capacity is only down 5 or 6, so one extra mag for every 5 of 5.56.

Weight - Negligble. 12" Grendel pistol still is plenty sufficient or outruns a 5.56 in any length and is as light or lighter in configured properly.

Cost of doing business, Wolf steel at $.24 per shot if you don't mind loss of accuracy - 1.5 MOA. LC ammo at the same $.24 per shot MOA at best.

If it's gotta be brass and lead bullets, then reload for $.43 or American Gunner for $.64

[Texas]

Keep a few 5.56s or uppers in case the wheels fall off.