Ammo sticking problems

[Klem]

Melglass,

Grendel owners with perfectly functioning barrels have little to post about.

[Melglass]

Not a troll just trying to understand why there seems to be so many problems with this one chamber. I have a genuine interest in this caliber that was kicked off lately. As far as barrels I had ordered an AA 16in a while back but they changed from coated to non so I canceled my order and ended up getting a Satern but got on a 7.62x39 kick and ended up not putting it together and it got traded off. My interest got perked again lately so I looked around to see what was out there and almost got a Faxon after watching Johnny’s reloading videos and I have had luck with them before. Ended up ordering a ARP because they have been good with me in the past too. If people are thinking I am here to cause problems with this post please lock it. It is just me trying to gain knowledge. The reason I did not list what barrel I have is because I have not mounted it so don’t know if it is a problem yet.

[StoneHendge]

If you got an ARP you should not have any problems. Having read through his site in the past, it is apparent that he can do no wrong. I'm surprised that JP only stole his bolt design and not more.

[Melglass]

I have had luck with his barrels, Faxon, CLE and White oak and I am sure I’m forgetting someone as far as AR barrels go. My bud got a BCA 7.62 upper because that was all he could afford and it has run 100% with solo accuracy but plenty good enough to kill hogs. Yes I could see the sarcasm running out of the last post.

[StoneHendge]

Hey, more power to him. Seems to have quite the following. He managed to sell out a run of 6.5 twist 224 Valkyrie barrels that "work best with 55-77 grain bullets". That's spinning a thin jacketed 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip are around 375k rpms. I think 400k is where I've read of jackets getting thrown off within 10 yds of the muzzle.

https://ar15performance.com/__grendel___wildcats

[Melglass]

Shot plenty of 50-55s out of my 6.5 twist PAC-Nors back in the day at 3300 or so. Never had one go MIA even as the round count got up there. Still have one on my blaster upper and shoot nothing but fmj and 50gr Hornady sp out of it. It still shoots knots.

[grayfox]

The first Arp 6.5 (which was an "LBC" style not Saami, he's a bit of a newcomer to the Saami side of this caliber) I bought from him had a lot of sticking and feeding and ejecting problems... turns out to have been mostly due to parts in his proprietary bolt design, and it all smoothed out after about 100 or so rounds. From my experiences he is more or less run-of-the-mill, no more, and hey, more power to him if he can sell his wares, this is America after all.

The biggest issue with Arp products is any proprietary parts, after all he's probably getting ready to retire like many older guys (of which I am one, but already retired), so you worry whether those prop. pieces will be available for replacement purchases if and when the originals fail... just something to keep in mind when you go those routes.

But I would not expect much more than simply average out of his shop. If you have a few from him that are good, then this one is that average-maker for you... get in contact with him -- he usually answers his emails so maybe he has some ideas on what you're facing with his barrel.

If you feel burned by the purchase it could be the mfr not the caliber. Ammo makers don't make lots of ammo for calibers that don't work, and the Grendel works very well.

[Melglass]

Been following the 224 issues. It is on my list of things to do. Sitting on enough projectiles to burn out a few barrels. Looks Ike he is saying that he is not happy with how the throat was cut so that is the bullets that will probably do best out of the mag. Seems to be a few guys that are having great luck with handloads been following some post on The Firing Line. Like I said I like to play with a lot of different calibers. Lol

[Melglass]

The first Arp 6.5 (which was an "LBC" style not Saami, he's a bit of a newcomer to the Saami side of this caliber) I bought from him had a lot of sticking and feeding and ejecting problems... turns out to have been mostly due to parts in his proprietary bolt design, and it all smoothed out after about 100 or so rounds. From my experiences he is more or less run-of-the-mill, no more, and hey, more power to him if he can sell his wares, this is America after all.

The biggest issue with Arp products is any proprietary parts, after all he's probably getting ready to retire like many older guys (of which I am one, but already retired), so you worry whether those prop. pieces will be available for replacement purchases if and when the originals fail... just something to keep in mind when you go those routes.

But I would not expect much more than simply average out of his shop. If you have a few from him that are good, then this one is that average-maker for you... get in contact with him -- he usually answers his emails so maybe he has some ideas on what you're facing with his barrel.

If you feel burned by the purchase it could be the mfr not the caliber. Ammo makers don't make lots of ammo for calibers that don't work, and the Grendel works very well.

Have a few of his barrels and all have been great. I did get the HD750 bolt but if I have problems i can use any .136 bolt no problem. His barrels have shot well above the price I have payed for them in the past so no fear of that for me. Not saying they will shoot with my cut rifled barrels but darn close. I don’t put a lot of time in load work up now like I did in the past. I normally just shoot some groups till I find something under an inch then stick my thermal on it. Hell my 7.62 will do it with wolf and shoot knots with the steel case SST load. Killed 26 hogs this year with Tula 8M3, a few with Wolf sp and a few with the SST. Have built guns in 7.62x39 with ARP, KaK, ARD and a 7.5 inch that I can’t remember. All but the 7.5 shot the SST under an inch but some shot the other low dollar ammo very good too.

[StoneHendge]

Been following the 224 issues. It is on my list of things to do. Sitting on enough projectiles to burn out a few barrels. Looks Ike he is saying that he is not happy with how the throat was cut so that is the bullets that will probably do best out of the mag. Seems to be a few guys that are having great luck with handloads been following some post on The Firing Line. Like I said I like to play with a lot of different calibers. Lol

Yeah I just find it funny that he viewed himself as the savior when he was the first to do a 1:6.5 twist Valk after Sierra decided that the 90s required a 1:6.5. And then it didn't work.

[TomSawyerNW]

I've shot different brands of store-bought .264 Grendel ammo in 3 different Grendels but never had an issue with any, including my limited use of the stuff in Wolf steel casing. That includes a lot of PPU ammo. I did have stuck casings with reloads I got from someone in one of my .223 AR rifles, but not in another AR platform (same ammo). In a high quality super accurate .308 AR, I find that some of the cheaper store-bought stuff does stick which has led to a new and different paranoia every time I shoot that rifle. In the end, nothing more frustrating than stuck shell casings - except for Democrats, of course.

[Melglass]

It’s been known in the highpower community that 6.5 is required for all conditions with the 90s for years. I had burned out 3-4 barrel with 6.5 twist and that was before I stopped shooting in 2006. There is a lot of hate on this board that I don’t understand. Just another supplier to go along with the others out there. The shooting community should welcome that.

[StoneHendge]

It’s been known in the highpower community that 6.5 is required for all conditions with the 90s for years. I had burned out 3-4 barrel with 6.5 twist and that was before I stopped shooting in 2006. There is a lot of hate on this board that I don’t understand. Just another supplier to go along with the others out there. The shooting community should welcome that.

Uh oh. Another Master. Here's where I check out. I've got a lot of bating to do before I am worthy.

[Melglass]

Uh oh. Another Master. Here's where I check out. I've got a lot of bating to do before I am worthy.

Like I said a lot of hate. I’m not a master just someone that loves guns and has played with a lot of stuff. I was not one of the ones that did the testing on the 90s just one of the ones that benefited from it.

[grayfox]

You blow in out of nowhere. You're the expert on everything you talk about. Generalizations right and left. Grendels obviously have so many problems... yet you have not chased down your supposed issue with H, Arp's owner, your barrel maker.
There's nothing much we could add for your situation if you won't even give the seller a chance... maybe he knows a thing or two you don't?
I'll move on to genuine OP's who want to add or learn something of value here.

[Kswhitetails]

The "hate" stems from some rather poor confrontational circumstances wherein a business owner calls out publicly his customers on a forum for daring to doubt his special sauce. You will find that the folks on this forum are generally mature pleasant posters who for the great majority are smarter than the average bear. The problem with Grendel is that none of the smaller manufacturers want to build what was designed, and trust in the testing and T&E done my it's creator. Therefore, they start playing with tolerances, materials, bolt designs, thinking they know better than the designer did. Then, when things go wrong, they blame it on the design, the designer, the caliber, the cartridge, the bolt, the ejector, or unfortunately in this case the customer.

If Grendel is built to spec, the materials, manufacturing techniques, the heat treatments used are correct, and then the loads fired are within the performance envelope, then there is no problem. Only goodness. The problems come when changes that don't mesh as well as the chang-er thought they would.

Grendel pushes the AR to the very edge of it's envelope. This means that the T&E done are exponentially more important than they are in other calibers, because of the fact that there is less window to make mistakes in. There isn't an extra 15% whoops factor there to cover these manufacturer's hind ends when something is out of whack. Then the customers who either don't know any better or don't care to learn, and manufacturers post comments about how the Grendel is flawed; when they are the ones that refused to build what was designed, tested, and proven to begin with. And those of us who can see what happened for what it is get a little testy and defensive when mud gets thrown on or own turf. Naturally, and with integrity.

Herein lies your apparent view of hatred toward a particular supplier.

If you want to build a Grendel, do so. You'll be rewarded with an AR that is at the absolute apex of the AR curve. Every time you pull the trigger you'll witness the best we can currently get out of an AR. But be cautioned: Buy your parts from good sources, made to the intended specifications, and use ammo loaded within it's tested performance envelope or be prepared to be disjointed with the results.

My LaRue Grendel rifle loves 120SMKs and 27Gr of Benchmark. LOVES it. Suppressed, unsuppressed, fast fired, slow, doesn't matter. Touching 10+ round groups are common. It's slower than most, but its fun to carve the center of any target I shoot, in any conditions, and know that I'll likely never have issues with strange wear patterns or broken parts, because I am well within Grendel's designed performance and pressure envelope. Doing so with more energy, lethality, and consistency than any other AR cartridge yet.

I bang steel with .308 guys that at first get pissed that I'm keeping up with a lighter, faster, and - come on, its a GAS GUN, swinging the steel with every bit as much authority, and with a bigger smile than they want to admit the guy next to them has. Then they shoot it, and smile too. Then they want one.

And then they want to push it. And then this WHOLE CYCLE starts over again.

I am guilty of wanting more, but I won't push my Grendel. I understand it's limitations, and am still VERY much in love with this little cartridge, it's history, design, and performance. But I will go with a more appropriate platform when I go in search of "faster" "flatter" "farther".

Allow me to apologize for any inferred hatred, we've just seen enough Grendel bashing to be wary of new members who come on board and start out by asking why the Grendel sucks.

My first barrel was an ARP Grendel. It shot well enough, and was easy to re-sell because of his professional reputation. I later read and learned more about the maker, and decided to put my build in other hardware. That was my choice, and since it eventually led me to my LaRue, let me say it was a good one.

Welcome aboard, we're all here to benefit the Grendel, and it's users. Maker's issues come and go, but we're generally proud of our objective measure of performance, which leads to reputation. You're in the right place for good information, there's some around that have been here since AA needed help testing ideas, and proving designs.

[Melglass]

You blow in out of nowhere. You're the expert on everything you talk about. Generalizations right and left. Grendels obviously have so many problems... yet you have not chased down your supposed issue with H, Arp's owner, your barrel maker.
There's nothing much we could add for your situation if you won't even give the seller a chance... maybe he knows a thing or two you don't?
I'll move on to genuine OP's who want to add or learn something of value here.

Read my post. My barrel came in Thursday and is not even mounted yet. I had a little time and was reading post on this sight trying to learn more on getting the most out of the setup that I’m about to put together. On the first two pages alone 3-4 people having trouble with ammo sticking in the throat. If I was having problems with a setup that I got from him I would have no problem calling to get it worked out like I would with any other company. The barrels I have got from him in the past have shot way above the $200 price tag so I am sure will be happy with my setup.

[Melglass]

Seems to me Satern was hated on to. I will use one of many manufacturers depending on the configuration that I am wanting to put together. The guy that got the Satern barrel from me sent pictures of a few groups that he shot with Black that you can cover with a dime. He ended up getting rid of his Bison 6.8 barrel after trying it. I’m not a one cartridge kind of guy so want to give the Grendel a try. Looking for another 300 and under hog and deer killer. If I like it enough will probably build a pistol upper to go along with my 10.5 7.62x39.

[Popeye212]

Yep, what A5 and Grayfox. Been on here a while and haven't seen anything about "sticky" chambers. If you don't like the Grendel don't get one. If you like your 6.8 and 7.62 be happy. We are perfectly happy with out Grendels.

[AZHTfreak]

I'm 0 for 4 on "sticky" Grrrr chambers. A Radical Firearms 24" complete upper w/ bolt, an AA 16"/bolt, a group buy 20"/monster bolt, and a group buy 12"/monster bolt. Jus sheer dumb luck I guess...