07-02-2018, 05:07 PM
The "hate" stems from some rather poor confrontational circumstances wherein a business owner calls out publicly his customers on a forum for daring to doubt his special sauce. You will find that the folks on this forum are generally mature pleasant posters who for the great majority are smarter than the average bear. The problem with Grendel is that none of the smaller manufacturers want to build what was designed, and trust in the testing and T&E done my it's creator. Therefore, they start playing with tolerances, materials, bolt designs, thinking they know better than the designer did. Then, when things go wrong, they blame it on the design, the designer, the caliber, the cartridge, the bolt, the ejector, or unfortunately in this case the customer.
If Grendel is built to spec, the materials, manufacturing techniques, the heat treatments used are correct, and then the loads fired are within the performance envelope, then there is no problem. Only goodness. The problems come when changes that don't mesh as well as the chang-er thought they would.
Grendel pushes the AR to the very edge of it's envelope. This means that the T&E done are exponentially more important than they are in other calibers, because of the fact that there is less window to make mistakes in. There isn't an extra 15% whoops factor there to cover these manufacturer's hind ends when something is out of whack. Then the customers who either don't know any better or don't care to learn, and manufacturers post comments about how the Grendel is flawed; when they are the ones that refused to build what was designed, tested, and proven to begin with. And those of us who can see what happened for what it is get a little testy and defensive when mud gets thrown on or own turf. Naturally, and with integrity.
Herein lies your apparent view of hatred toward a particular supplier.
If you want to build a Grendel, do so. You'll be rewarded with an AR that is at the absolute apex of the AR curve. Every time you pull the trigger you'll witness the best we can currently get out of an AR. But be cautioned: Buy your parts from good sources, made to the intended specifications, and use ammo loaded within it's tested performance envelope or be prepared to be disjointed with the results.
My LaRue Grendel rifle loves 120SMKs and 27Gr of Benchmark. LOVES it. Suppressed, unsuppressed, fast fired, slow, doesn't matter. Touching 10+ round groups are common. It's slower than most, but its fun to carve the center of any target I shoot, in any conditions, and know that I'll likely never have issues with strange wear patterns or broken parts, because I am well within Grendel's designed performance and pressure envelope. Doing so with more energy, lethality, and consistency than any other AR cartridge yet.
I bang steel with .308 guys that at first get pissed that I'm keeping up with a lighter, faster, and - come on, its a GAS GUN, swinging the steel with every bit as much authority, and with a bigger smile than they want to admit the guy next to them has. Then they shoot it, and smile too. Then they want one.
And then they want to push it. And then this WHOLE CYCLE starts over again.
I am guilty of wanting more, but I won't push my Grendel. I understand it's limitations, and am still VERY much in love with this little cartridge, it's history, design, and performance. But I will go with a more appropriate platform when I go in search of "faster" "flatter" "farther".
Allow me to apologize for any inferred hatred, we've just seen enough Grendel bashing to be wary of new members who come on board and start out by asking why the Grendel sucks.
My first barrel was an ARP Grendel. It shot well enough, and was easy to re-sell because of his professional reputation. I later read and learned more about the maker, and decided to put my build in other hardware. That was my choice, and since it eventually led me to my LaRue, let me say it was a good one.
Welcome aboard, we're all here to benefit the Grendel, and it's users. Maker's issues come and go, but we're generally proud of our objective measure of performance, which leads to reputation. You're in the right place for good information, there's some around that have been here since AA needed help testing ideas, and proving designs.
If Grendel is built to spec, the materials, manufacturing techniques, the heat treatments used are correct, and then the loads fired are within the performance envelope, then there is no problem. Only goodness. The problems come when changes that don't mesh as well as the chang-er thought they would.
Grendel pushes the AR to the very edge of it's envelope. This means that the T&E done are exponentially more important than they are in other calibers, because of the fact that there is less window to make mistakes in. There isn't an extra 15% whoops factor there to cover these manufacturer's hind ends when something is out of whack. Then the customers who either don't know any better or don't care to learn, and manufacturers post comments about how the Grendel is flawed; when they are the ones that refused to build what was designed, tested, and proven to begin with. And those of us who can see what happened for what it is get a little testy and defensive when mud gets thrown on or own turf. Naturally, and with integrity.
Herein lies your apparent view of hatred toward a particular supplier.
If you want to build a Grendel, do so. You'll be rewarded with an AR that is at the absolute apex of the AR curve. Every time you pull the trigger you'll witness the best we can currently get out of an AR. But be cautioned: Buy your parts from good sources, made to the intended specifications, and use ammo loaded within it's tested performance envelope or be prepared to be disjointed with the results.
My LaRue Grendel rifle loves 120SMKs and 27Gr of Benchmark. LOVES it. Suppressed, unsuppressed, fast fired, slow, doesn't matter. Touching 10+ round groups are common. It's slower than most, but its fun to carve the center of any target I shoot, in any conditions, and know that I'll likely never have issues with strange wear patterns or broken parts, because I am well within Grendel's designed performance and pressure envelope. Doing so with more energy, lethality, and consistency than any other AR cartridge yet.
I bang steel with .308 guys that at first get pissed that I'm keeping up with a lighter, faster, and - come on, its a GAS GUN, swinging the steel with every bit as much authority, and with a bigger smile than they want to admit the guy next to them has. Then they shoot it, and smile too. Then they want one.
And then they want to push it. And then this WHOLE CYCLE starts over again.
I am guilty of wanting more, but I won't push my Grendel. I understand it's limitations, and am still VERY much in love with this little cartridge, it's history, design, and performance. But I will go with a more appropriate platform when I go in search of "faster" "flatter" "farther".
Allow me to apologize for any inferred hatred, we've just seen enough Grendel bashing to be wary of new members who come on board and start out by asking why the Grendel sucks.
My first barrel was an ARP Grendel. It shot well enough, and was easy to re-sell because of his professional reputation. I later read and learned more about the maker, and decided to put my build in other hardware. That was my choice, and since it eventually led me to my LaRue, let me say it was a good one.
Welcome aboard, we're all here to benefit the Grendel, and it's users. Maker's issues come and go, but we're generally proud of our objective measure of performance, which leads to reputation. You're in the right place for good information, there's some around that have been here since AA needed help testing ideas, and proving designs.
Nothing kills the incentive of men faster than a healthy sense of entitlement. Nothing kills entitlement faster than a healthy sense of achievement.