Bet-your-life reliability in a 6.5 Grendel AR15 platform?

[LRRPF52]

This subject has come up before on this forum a few times since I’ve been a member. The conversation gave me an incentive to conduct a simple nonscientific test comparing a 16” 6.5 Grendel AR-15 to a 5.56 AR-15. I have almost two identical rifles, one in 6.5 Grendel and one in 5.56/223. I know the OP mentioned a pistol caliber 6.5 Grendel compared to a 5.56 pistol.

From my 35 years in LE and after conducting this test my recommendation is either will work. The emphasis should be on training/practice and testing your equipment to know it’s capabilities. In a self defense context I think 200 round reliabilty is acceptable.

I put more value on training and tactics over a particular cartridge especially with rifle/carbine/pistols in rifle calibers. Once I was authorized to use an AR-15 in LE I normally carried aluminum mil spec mags loaded to 28 rounds. If there was any indication a high risk deadly incident was remotely possible I moved my AR-15 from the trunk to the passenger compartment for quick access. If I had time I exited the car with my AR-15 with at least one or two 30 round mags in my back pocket.

Today many Officers have purchased rifle rated ballistic armor in plate carriers with spare mags/ammo attached. If a situation arises the Officers gear up and are more prepared.

This is my personal opinion so take it for what it’s worth, I’d rather be well trained to where I am capable of putting a rifle caliber bullet in my target accurately than a specific caliber. My agency issued bonded core 55 grain JSP Federal TRU (Tactical Urban Defense) for a duty cartridge. My agency has M-16 A-1’s, 16” AR-15’s and M-4 carbines in use. I haven’t run the ballistic but I’d be surprised if this round would not prove effective out to 100 yards out of a 10.5”-12.5” 5.56 pistol.

I put more faith in awareness of surroundings, mental state and preparedness to the difference between a 6.5 Grendel and a AR-15 in 5.56. I can make either work if given enough time and effort. My physical ability today is a handicap for me do to age and retirement.

I’d have no hesitation using my 16” 6.5 Grendel with factory 123 grain A-Max as a LE weapon or a self defense weapon. Most LE encounters with rifles/carbine are at close range usually within 50 yards and rarely beyond 100 yards. In a self defense situation you have to be able to articulate your life or someone else's life is in danger and might prove difficult if your at 100 yards. In actual every day life the the likelihood of shooting in self defense at 100 yards plus is going to rare, plausible but rare. Which ever weapon you decide to use please become familar enough with the weapon to ensure it is reliable and you can use it effectively.

I have numerous rifles and pistols but for convenience and effectiveness I have 16” Tavor that I normally use as a travel companion. I also have a pistol on my person with two spare mags.

Here is a link to the test I mentioned. I’ve lost the photos on photobucket but I’ll try to replace the photos in this thread.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...el-vs-5-56

I updated the pictures in this test and the photos should now be visible. I lost the actual pictures when photobucket quit allowing links to forums. I still had the targets but not the pictures showing the misses on the cardboard where the plates were stapled.

This is an excellent post. What I will add is that no matter what weapon/ammunition/magazine/optics/illumination/carry combination you are looking at, you need to personally screen and then proof that system for yourself.

I don't care if it is the most highly-rated, ultra-reliable pistol or carbine from the most well-recommended manufacturer in the world.

You need to know personally that your system works with the mags and ammo that you feed it.

A good recommendation from Kyle Lamb and other trainers was to take your mags and run them through your carbine in some courses of fire.

If any of the mags had an issue, cull them from your inventory (he would smash them, no time to mess with fixing mags).

I have been apprehensive about reaching for one of my 6.5 Grendel carbines over the years because I simply have way more trigger time and experience with the 5.56 blasters, dating back to the 1980s.

Even with the amount of trigger time I have gained with 6.5 Grendel, the round count does not compare well with 5.56, and 5.56 magazines have literally 60 years of development, production, deployment, and improvement-something that is still continuing with 5.56 mags to this day.

6.5 Grendel has 14 years of magazine development, production, and end-user experience.

My recent experience with my LaRue Stealth 2.0 Grendel really impacted how I look at the gun though, because it runs so smoothly and in the happy pocket of AR15 cyclic rate, that I feel much more confident in it than even my personal builds.

I've had 2 malfunctions with different 6.5 Grendel builds of mine. The first was my original 16" build in an MGI upper with no M4 ramps, shooting the old Prvi Partisan 123gr Soft Point, which was notoriously bad ammo for the AR15. The first round from bolt hold open load did not go fully into battery, but after a half-retract on the charge handle, it did, and fired, extracted, fed all rounds.

The other malfunction I had was with my Lilja 17.6" build with an experimental, pre-production 17rd Elander magazine that Bill A. sent me. Same type of malf, bolt lock feed, FTFeed, nosedive, damaged the Hornady AMAX tip. That one surprised me because that gun had run flawlessly up until that point, but I've never had a problem with it since. Those are the 2 malfunctions that stand out to me over an 8 year period with thousands of rounds between many different Grendels.

Over that same period of time, my BCM 14.5" pinned MLGS carbine has never hiccuped, but I've seen a lot of home-builds from people choke that have come to my courses. Reasons range from incorrectly installed gas blocks to use of Frog Lube.

I will say that if my LaRue Stealth 2.0 had a 11.5"-12.5" barrel with a suppressor, I wouldn't hesitate to reach for it for work in the house, provided I'm able to proof it through at least 500rds.

I'm working on a 12" Grendel pistol build right now as well, with my can in jail.

11.5" 5.56 is no joke within 200yds, and more than adequate for close quarters. 10.5" with good ammo is a known killer since the early 1960s, and we have way better ammo selection nowadays.

Where 6.5 Grendel leaves 5.56 behind is in the ubiquity department for use as an HD and hunting set-up, which also penetrates barriers much better than both 5.56 and 7.62x39.