VASCAR2 Wrote:This subject has come up before on this forum a few times since Ive been a member. The conversation gave me an incentive to conduct a simple nonscientific test comparing a 16 6.5 Grendel AR-15 to a 5.56 AR-15. I have almost two identical rifles, one in 6.5 Grendel and one in 5.56/223. I know the OP mentioned a pistol caliber 6.5 Grendel compared to a 5.56 pistol.
From my 35 years in LE and after conducting this test my recommendation is either will work. The emphasis should be on training/practice and testing your equipment to know its capabilities. In a self defense context I think 200 round reliabilty is acceptable.
I put more value on training and tactics over a particular cartridge especially with rifle/carbine/pistols in rifle calibers. Once I was authorized to use an AR-15 in LE I normally carried aluminum mil spec mags loaded to 28 rounds. If there was any indication a high risk deadly incident was remotely possible I moved my AR-15 from the trunk to the passenger compartment for quick access. If I had time I exited the car with my AR-15 with at least one or two 30 round mags in my back pocket.
Today many Officers have purchased rifle rated ballistic armor in plate carriers with spare mags/ammo attached. If a situation arises the Officers gear up and are more prepared.
This is my personal opinion so take it for what its worth, Id rather be well trained to where I am capable of putting a rifle caliber bullet in my target accurately than a specific caliber. My agency issued bonded core 55 grain JSP Federal TRU (Tactical Urban Defense) for a duty cartridge. My agency has M-16 A-1s, 16 AR-15s and M-4 carbines in use. I havent run the ballistic but Id be surprised if this round would not prove effective out to 100 yards out of a 10.5-12.5 5.56 pistol.
I put more faith in awareness of surroundings, mental state and preparedness to the difference between a 6.5 Grendel and a AR-15 in 5.56. I can make either work if given enough time and effort. My physical ability today is a handicap for me do to age and retirement.
Id have no hesitation using my 16 6.5 Grendel with factory 123 grain A-Max as a LE weapon or a self defense weapon. Most LE encounters with rifles/carbine are at close range usually within 50 yards and rarely beyond 100 yards. In a self defense situation you have to be able to articulate your life or someone else's life is in danger and might prove difficult if your at 100 yards. In actual every day life the the likelihood of shooting in self defense at 100 yards plus is going to rare, plausible but rare. Which ever weapon you decide to use please become familar enough with the weapon to ensure it is reliable and you can use it effectively.
I have numerous rifles and pistols but for convenience and effectiveness I have 16 Tavor that I normally use as a travel companion. I also have a pistol on my person with two spare mags.
Here is a link to the test I mentioned. Ive lost the photos on photobucket but Ill try to replace the photos in this thread.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...el-vs-5-56
We need a like button.
Very very very well put.
In most these kinds of situations, unless body armor/barrier penetration is an issue, just about any centerfire rifle will do the trick... rifle/shooter marriage far outweighs rifle/cartridge.
FWIW I have over 1200 rounds through my 16" ILGS Grendel without a hiccup.. the only thing that gives me pause is the life of the mags.. and I completely understand everyone has very different mileage, but this was my experience..
ASC/AR-Stoner: in my small (2 mags) same these were junk. Required bending of the fees lips to get best function l, and the steep shoulder of the Grendel would always rub aggressively against the front of the mags during feeding.. cheap though.
E-lander: I know I'll get crucified for this, but these Israeli made mags did not impress me either with my 2 mag sample (one 4 rounder and one 10 rounder). The four rounder was extremely difficult to load, even after sitting loaded for months and much use. Thier was so much tension that I could feel the sluggishness whenever I chambered a round. The 10 rounder came with my father's 18" AA upper, and under 200 rounds it literally came apart in the front where it is spot welds.
CPD: these were my favorite, at least the 10 round models. The 5 rounder only held 4. You could cram 5 in their but it would then require the bolt to be locked back to successfully insert the magazine. 10 rounder was great. Would hold all 10, loaded easy and fed smoothly, no destruction of the brass.
The 20 rounder I could only get to reliably hold 18, and after just a few loadings and uses it started to "bulge" and become difficult to insert in the mag well. Soon it was evident it was quite literally coming apart at the seams.
Again, this was just my experience with my limited samples.
When it comes to a semi-auto and defending my family, life or liberty, I am most anal retentive about my magazines, hence why there is a 99% chance in that scenario whatever cartridge I carried would use a PMAG.
I will say, the PRI and Barret 30 round 6.8 mags are almost as impressive as a PMAG to me...