Status of Gun Industry

[montana]

My guess is the militia is being replaced with the SS, and it doesn't mean social security. Lock and load friends.

[Nukes]

...DHS: The politically-camouflaged term for Ministry of Internal Security

Ministerium für Staatssicherheit des Vaterlandes

КГБ (Комитет государственной безопасности​

[VASCAR2]

What is strange to me is how government can screw things up. The last state agency I worked for was required to stop allowing the LE agency from ordering ammo. A state agency that did all state orders took over seeing that ammo was purchased. The PD armorers kept quite a bit of ammo on hand because they had seen it took quite a bit of time for orders to be filled from time to time. Plus buying in large quantities usually lowered the per round price. The state purchasing people kept their orders to the bare minimum which meant higher price per round. Before I left there wasn't enough ammo on hand for quarterly 50 round shoot. Some of the ammo we shot was rejected ammo from an order from the border patrol. After that ammo was gone there was nobody willing to fill the orders for ammo ( no available ammo to be sold). The last quarterly shoot I Took we fired 10 rounds. To my knowledge the situation has not improved. To top it off the central range used to reload 9 MM training ammo. When the agency switched to 40 S&W caliber the Camdex reloading equipment was then surplus and sold (no more dept loaded ammo). The program was frowned on because a good audit was not kept on bullets, powder, primers and brass. Small amounts were sent out to other ranges for use to help low score shooters.

Reloading was being done by range officers at each range so practice ammo was available to help improve poor shooters. Ammo was loaded on privately owned reloading equipment owned by range officers. A small amount of ammo might have been shot for non department use but nobody sold anything for profit. Ammo was tight enough, what was reloaded usually got used appropriately. To go from a place where there was good training and adequate supplies to the low morale and inadequate resources sucks. Boy am I glad I retired and got away from this bureaucratic BS!

[shotgun_wedding]

FYI - in my area, I saw some .22, .38, and 9mm ammo today. First I've seen in stock at 'normal' stores for quite a while. The .22 was just shy of $2 for a box of 50. Of course, there were only a few boxes, and a limit on the number you could buy.

On another note, I went to a gun show a couple of weeks ago, and it was pretty busy, but not mobbed like I would expect it to be. I went on Sunday, so maybe the mob occurred the day before. There wasn't a lot of ammo, unless you shoot something like a 257 Roberts - lots of the old tattered boxes of odd calibers. I will be going to another show sometime soon, so I will try to make a better report next time.

[smoke13]

So apparently the massive ammo orders from the DHS, which they are calling “strategic sourcing contracts,” is simply for bulk buy discounts. Well at least it's nice to know that they are trying to save the tax payer money... because they are all about saving money... right.
http://www.infowars.com/why-1-6-billion-...of-course/

[LRRPF52]

Shelves are still practically empty at Sportman's Warehouse. I ran a booth at the last Gun Show, and there were people lined up in the freezing cold frost at 0700, all the way out in front of the building and along the front sidewalks.

When the doors opened early, they charged the ammo area, which had a hidden maze queue behind its tall banner. Dudes and gals came in with dollies, and it was all re-loads mostly.

I did meet several new Grendel owners who have never heard of the forum, and sold them Reloading Handbooks. They love the Grendel for hunting.

[smoke13]

Mainstream media is now carrying the story of DHS buying 1.6 billion rounds.
Forbes: 1.6 billion rounds of ammo- Time for a conversation!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2...versation/

[shotgun_wedding]

CNN finally noticed that ammo is in short supply: http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/com...?hpt=hp_t2

[kegs]

1.6 billion rounds is being bought over 5 years for more than just the DHS, and that covers multiple calibers & probably includes supply stock for 5 years aft of that too. Lets not forget the 2700 MRAPS the DHS is getting from the military as well. 2700+ MRAPS. There are about 3,000 counties in the US. Think about it. Something massive has already been planned.

[davidj]

Maybe it is for the Civilian National Security Force . President Obaba has said he wants one.

[LR1955]

1.6 billion rounds is being bought over 5 years for more than just the DHS, and that covers multiple calibers & probably includes supply stock for 5 years aft of that too. Lets not forget the 2700 MRAPS the DHS is getting from the military as well. 2700+ MRAPS. There are about 3,000 counties in the US. Think about it. Something massive has already been planned.

Kegs:

What has already been planned? Cite me more than nut jobs, please.

And, once again, what makes anyone here think that all these federal agencies could possibly manage to plan and coordinate a total take over of the USA with other federal agencies, get the full support of every state and every municipality, keep it all a secret, and then finally -- you tell me how it will be executed. Include centers of gravity, troop movements, population control measures, taking over of all media to include the internet, gaining control of all food and water and disseminating it to a 300 plus million population, gaining control of the National Guards, and as importantly -- thinking they can do it without any resistance?

One MRAP per county? So what?

Not picking a fight. Please tell me how all this WILL happen -- particularly getting the approval of every single municipal leader and LEA.

LR1955

[cory]

LR1955 the approval of every single municipal leader and LEA isn't necessary, at least not initially. They only need a select number of the top level guys to be on board and the core leadership of one federal agency with the means to carry out the necessary ground work.

These hypothetical events we talk about are only feasible under a handful of strict scenarios. The most likely and most effective for the tyrants would be under a global economic disaster.

This would need to include the collapse of the US dollar. They'll print more money to try and keep things going but inflation will quickly overtake the dollar. This will cause a complete collapse of the US economic machine, changing life as we know it. I think at this point you begin to see why we're so concerned, the global stage is set for such events.

This has happened before in history, but this time will be very different. The populations of the developed world has become dependent on the Global trade for everyday "necessities". The populations in our cities have become completely dependent on our vast trade networks for their basic daily needs. With the exception of a small percentage of the population people would begin to starve in a small amount of time. This will lead to anarchy and people being forced to kill others to acquire the food they need to survive. If your family was starving and another family had a house full of supplies, what would you be willing to do to feed them?

The stage is set for the government to step in and take over. It will be done under the guise of the public good. Anybody who doesn't go along with it will be initially accused of wanting to see the elderly and babies starve. Does the Paul Ryan budget ring a bell? Once the government take over goes into motion anyone who speaks out against the tyranny will be deemed a traitor to the state. They'll demand we hand over our weapons for our own safety. Katrina will be the architecture for such actions.

This will be the point where the majority of Americans will make their final decision. Individuals will have to decide which is really more important to them, Liberty or Security. It'll come down to basic human instincts fight or flee. I hope the majority or Americans haven't lost their instinct to fight as I fear may very well be the case.

The patriots will make the same decision as our forefathers, Liberty or Death. I hope there will be enough of us. When this comes to pass, May God be with us.

This may not happen under the obama administration as most of us expect, but I have no doubt this will happen in my lifetime. Assuming America doesn't just roll over and hand over our liberties to the tyrants in washington, in the dead of night.

[Trooper]

LR1955 the approval of every single municipal leader and LEA isn't necessary, at least not initially. They only need a select number of the top level guys to be on board and the core leadership of one federal agency with the means to carry out the necessary ground work.

These hypothetical events we talk about are only feasible under a handful of strict scenarios. The most likely and most effective for the tyrants would be under a global economic disaster.

This would need to include the collapse of the US dollar. They'll print more money to try and keep things going but inflation will quickly overtake the dollar. This will cause a complete collapse of the US economic machine, changing life as we know it. I think at this point you begin to see why we're so concerned, the global stage is set for such events.

This has happened before in history, but this time will be very different. The populations of the developed world has become dependent on the Global trade for everyday "necessities". The populations in our cities have become completely dependent on our vast trade networks for their basic daily needs. With the exception of a small percentage of the population people would begin to starve in a small amount of time. This will lead to anarchy and people being forced to kill others to acquire the food they need to survive. If your family was starving and another family had a house full of supplies, what would you be willing to do to feed them?

The stage is set for the government to step in and take over. It will be done under the guise of the public good. Anybody who doesn't go along with it will be initially accused of wanting to see the elderly and babies starve. Does the Paul Ryan budget ring a bell? Once the government take over goes into motion anyone who speaks out against the tyranny will be deemed a traitor to the state. They'll demand we hand over our weapons for our own safety. Katrina will be the architecture for such actions.

This will be the point where the majority of Americans will make their final decision. Individuals will have to decide which is really more important to them, Liberty or Security. It'll come down to basic human instincts fight or flee. I hope the majority or Americans haven't lost their instinct to fight as I fear may very well be the case.

The patriots will make the same decision as our forefathers, Liberty or Death. I hope there will be enough of us. When this comes to pass, May God be with us.

This may not happen under the obama administration as most of us expect, but I have no doubt this will happen in my lifetime. Assuming America doesn't just roll over and hand over our liberties to the tyrants in washington, in the dead of night.

What you are saying is that we are a complex society that is very interdependent. Such societies rely on trust. When that trust breaks down, such societies colapse quickly. It happened to Rome (from 2 million to under 20,000) and several times China's society has colapsed.

We have a society that is very dependent on silicon technology (micro electronics). It would not take much for that to be made useless (EMP strike for example). If you were born after 1970, you have no idea of how a mechanical society worked. You have never seen a typewriter or a rotatory phone. You may not have any idea on how to garden or hunt. No idea on how to survive.

Look when a technology or activity is no longer needed in society it becomes a hobby. And those who practice such hobbies are living museums that keep the knowledge alive.

[Fillar]

I’m somewhat with LR1955 on this one. Most states would react swiftly, if there were large quick-changing violations to our Rights from the Fed. It’s almost like the DHS are Preppers – preparing for Martial Law or Civil Unrest due to something catastrophic. I have stored items (i.e. Hurricane preparedness) that go way up and beyond the list put out by FEMA.

In either case (Nation-wide catastrophic event or local Tampa Hurricane) there is a sense of peace when you’re prepared. So hopefully now that they have their prepared ammo, they can focus on balancing the budget.

I do agree that is an extreme amount of munitions, which makes little sense to me. Fortunately I live near thousands of Sailboat, which will take me and my family to Belize if needed. You guys may want to move to FL...

[LR1955]

I’m somewhat with LR1955 on this one. Most states would react swiftly, if there were large quick-changing violations to our Rights from the Fed. It’s almost like the DHS are Preppers – preparing for Martial Law or Civil Unrest due to something catastrophic. I have stored items (i.e. Hurricane preparedness) that go way up and beyond the list put out by FEMA.

In either case (Nation-wide catastrophic event or local Tampa Hurricane) there is a sense of peace when you’re prepared. So hopefully now that they have their prepared ammo, they can focus on balancing the budget.

I do agree that is an extreme amount of munitions, which makes little sense to me. Fortunately I live near thousands of Sailboat, which will take me and my family to Belize if needed. You guys may want to move to FL...

Here you go.

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articl...ition.aspx

[hm2 clark]

So, DHS is buying 1.6 billion rounds of ammo and maybe 2700 armored vehicles. And then I hear they are also going whole hog with the drone thing. (that's makes infantry armor and air power.) It could just be a coincidence (Then again, 1ce is happenstance, 2 is coincidence BUT 3 is ENEMY ACTION) Question is, What's all that firepower for? Maybe DHS is prepraing us for an invasion? Maybe DHS is planning their own coup? Yah, that it; DHS is planning a coup.

[LRRPF52]

Everything I'm hearing from Federal and State LEO's is that range time is way down, ammo availability is way down, and ammo costs are way up.

I agree that we need to be going full-court press on Fast & Furious, rather than playing into the fear factory.

[bwaites]

The DHS buy isn't so worrisome, because the numbers don't really mean all that much with delayed delivery, etc. The weird thing is that with more than a Billion rounds/week being produced, we still can't find ammo!

But my friends who are LEO's at the federal level have seen their range time REALLY cut back. That makes little sense!

[shotgun_wedding]

Just crunching numbers for fun here... Googling around, it looks like there are about 70M adult gun owners in the US (http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp). Of that, 47% are males. Let's guess that just 10% of them buy 1 box per week (sorry it's a little sexist, but I'm the one who gets the bullets in our house - the missus doesn't generally do it):

70,000,000 * .47 = 32,900,000 male gun owners
32,900,000 * 10% = 3,900,000 that buy 1 box (50 rounds) every week.
3,900,000 * 50 = 164,500,000 bullets

That assumes that they are playing nice and only getting 1 box. There might be folks who are getting more... I can see how a billion rounds can evaporate pretty quickly. What I'd like to be able to guess is the point at which people will be cutting back on purchases.

[Unfortunately, 50 rounds is about enough to last about 10 minutes for my family at the range]

[LR1955]

The DHS buy isn't so worrisome, because the numbers don't really mean all that much with delayed delivery, etc. The weird thing is that with more than a Billion rounds/week being produced, we still can't find ammo!

But my friends who are LEO's at the federal level have seen their range time REALLY cut back. That makes little sense!

Bill:

That's because this is a solicitation, not the end purchase.

Ammo is expensive and normally the first wave of budget cuts will include training and training ammunition. First wave of cuts ... not the second or last. The first to go is training and of the training, the most expensive is the training that sucks up ammunition.

The truth is that the public is panic buying.

LR1955