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tdbru Wrote:pinetreebbs,
neck annealing is the cure for split necks. however, split necks are caused by overworking the brass. this is normal with standard reloading dies because the die makers have no clue what brass you're going to use, which could have a large variation in neck thickness, so they make sure their standard dies squeeze the neck down to a minimum size. then the expander ball will open it back up to a couple of thousands under bullet diameter. that works the brass a lot.
eventually a few die makers, and Redding comes to mind among others offer what is a bushing die where the brass body is sized down as normal, but for the neck you pick a bushing diameter that will just squeeze the neck down a minimum amount that will let you seat the bullet with enough neck tension. there is no expander ball. you have to figure out which bushing to get based upon your brass. so the folks that use these are typically using them for target shooting, working on getting a maximum amount of reloads out of the brass, and hence usually only buy/reload brass all from the same lot and mfgr to get as high a uniformity as possible. So for them it's easier to pick a neck sizing bushing that will just size their brass only enough to hold the bullet and no more. since all the brass is from the same mfgr and lot, and usually so top quality brass, like Lapua, Peterson, Nosler, etc. the neck thickness is pretty uniform in that lot.
if you scrounge brass from anywhere and everywhere, multiple manufacturers, multiple lots, multiple firings, etc. you may need to just stick with a standard full length sizing die and just neck anneal every 3rd or 4th firing. in mixed case groups of ammo one shouldn't expect as uniform internal case volume and neck tension as when all the brass in the reloads came from one lot of brass from one manufacturer. that variation in internal volume and neck tension usually translates into more dispersion and larger groups due to velocity variations. so it's up to you how you want to do your reloading process, but if you're getting neck splits, it's time to either chuck the brass into the recycle bin or learn how to neck anneal and get the tooling required for that if you want to prolong the reloading life of the rest of the cases that didn't neck split.
-tdbru
I have been researching annealing and I ordered 200 pieces of new brass. I am just going to throw out my first batch Ive been messing around with because it is all mixed matched at this point. Its all loaded at the moment so Ill toss it after firing or just put it away for just in case. I didnt know any better at the time. My new brass arrived today. Another question to add to the thread. How would you prep your new brass? I am going to run it all through my sizing die. But will I see decrease in accuracy until after the first firing? Its like working everything back up for the first time right?
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JTB,
do you have a reloading manual at all? most of them have pretty extensive introduction to reloading section on brass prep.
when i prep new brass i usually uniform the primer flash hole, because i think it helps consistent ignition of the powder. i cannot prove that and many folks do not uniform the primer flash hole.
i also chamfer the inside of the necks so that the neck doesn't shave metal off of the bullets when you seat them.
i usually also run then through the sizing die as well.
if you can shoot well enough to tell the difference between new brass and once fired brass, you're a heck of a lot better shot than i am.
do keep track of the number of firings on the brass and when the whole lot is at 4 you might consider neck annealing.
do keep an eye on your brass as to it's lengthening and if it lengthens too much, be sure to trim it back. for best accuracy, due to consistent neck tension, if you have to trim a few pieces, you might as well trim the whole lot back to the same length.
in a bolt gun, you can adjust the FL sizing die to just bump the shoulder a minimal amount to reduce the amount of sizing going on. but then that brass will "fit" that bolt gun only, in general. if you are using a semi auto you'll have to size the cases enough so that they chamber easily.
-tdbru
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Yes sir I do. Hornady and Berger manuals. I just thought I would ask because theres a lot of first hand knowledge here and I learn a lot here. I am still new to reloading. I will get it out and read up on it. This is the first new brass I have picked up. All my other brass started as factory ammo and it all needed trimming after that first firing. I also chamfer at that point. But I have not had to trim it again. I am only bumping back the shoulder .003. I am running standard Forster dies. Annealing is definitely something I want to learn. I have not yet done any work on flash holes or primer pockets other than cleaning. I will pick up a uniformer. I also have got to find a way to keep track of number of firings for each piece. I generally fire at least 50 in a session and as many as 100. I really jumped into reloading and dont know anyone else that does it so Im learning as I go. Thank you for your help.
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JTB,
I run all new brass through the sizing die so they are guaranteed to be uniform. I also champher the inside mouth to provide an angled surface for when the bullet is inserted. You only have to do this once in the life of the case.
After the first firing there should be no change to the accuracy if full-length sizing for an auto loader. For a bolt gun many guys neck size only as this leaves the case expanded (fire-formed) to the shape of the chamber. This is supposed to be more accurate than FL sizing because the bullet is now concentric to the bore.
You can ream flash holes if you want but I doubt you will see any benefit in an AR. If using Lapua brass this is unnecessary anyway because I hear they drill their flash holes instead of punching them.
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JTB Wrote:I have been researching annealing and I ordered 200 pieces of new brass. I am just going to throw out my first batch Ive been messing around with because it is all mixed matched at this point. Its all loaded at the moment so Ill toss it after firing or just put it away for just in case. I didnt know any better at the time. My new brass arrived today. Another question to add to the thread. How would you prep your new brass? I am going to run it all through my sizing die. But will I see decrease in accuracy until after the first firing? Its like working everything back up for the first time right?
JTB:
If the new brass is Lapua, run it through a Full Length Sizer and champher the neck. Load and shoot. After shooting them five or ten times, measure a few to see if you need to trim them. If you trim them you will have to champher again.
If Hornady or other brass, run them through a Full Length Sizer and measure a few to see if they are the same size. If so, champher and shoot. After five or so shots, measure length again and see if you need to trim.
Trim to minimum length if you trim.
Spend money on components and not annealing gear.
Getting a decent Forster or other collet type of sizing die will mean you won't overwork the necks and will never need to anneal.
If you think the accuracy will suffer from a first firing of new brass, you need to focus your money on components and practice more than annealing gear.
LR55
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LR1955 Wrote:JTB:
If the new brass is Lapua, run it through a Full Length Sizer and champher the neck. Load and shoot. After shooting them five or ten times, measure a few to see if you need to trim them. If you trim them you will have to champher again.
If Hornady or other brass, run them through a Full Length Sizer and measure a few to see if they are the same size. If so, champher and shoot. After five or so shots, measure length again and see if you need to trim.
Trim to minimum length if you trim.
Spend money on components and not annealing gear.
Getting a decent Forster or other collet type of sizing die will mean you won't overwork the necks and will never need to anneal.
If you think the accuracy will suffer from a first firing of new brass, you need to focus your money on components and practice more than annealing gear.
LR55
Thank you for the reply sir. It is Hornady brass. I use Forster currently but my sizer is not a bushing die. They offer a service to hone and set the next neck for you but I would rather look into bushing dies and learn to use them. The process you described is pretty much what I expected it to be. I am glad I have some fresh brass now to start over with. I am about to join a range and currently I shoot every 2 to 3 weeks but its time to get ready for hunting season so I dont really want to shoot at my property at the moment. Looking forward to smacking some steel out to 500 real soon. Ill get them prepped and loaded up this week. I do plan on going one more time this coming week but the soy beans are getting so tall now that I have to lay in the back of my truck.
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Klem Wrote:JTB,
I run all new brass through the sizing die so they are guaranteed to be uniform. I also champher the inside mouth to provide an angled surface for when the bullet is inserted. You only have to do this once in the life of the case.
After the first firing there should be no change to the accuracy if full-length sizing for an auto loader. For a bolt gun many guys neck size only as this leaves the case expanded (fire-formed) to the shape of the chamber. This is supposed to be more accurate than FL sizing because the bullet is now concentric to the bore.
You can ream flash holes if you want but I doubt you will see any benefit in an AR. If using Lapua brass this is unnecessary anyway because I hear they drill their flash holes instead of punching them.
10/4 sir. Thank you. I thought thats what you guys would say.
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I use Hornady brass.Ive always had to trim after the first firing. I dont even check anymore. I just run all my brass through my LE Wilson trimmer after I size.I use a low RPM Black & Decker power screw driver.I trim at 1.515. So, its pretty quick and easy(15min/100).
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FLshooter Wrote:I use Hornady brass.Ive always had to trim after the first firing. I dont even check anymore. I just run all my brass through my LE Wilson trimmer after I size.I use a low RPM Black & Decker power screw driver.I trim at 1.515. So, its pretty quick and easy(15min/100).
I have the Lyman Easy Trim. It works pretty good. You work it by hand or in a drill. I use my small impact because I can run it slow. Its a pretty quick process. Seems like the Hornady is always excessively long after firing but Ive only turned it once and it grows very little.
