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Brass Life Expectancy - JTB - 06-19-2020
I am somewhat new to reloading. How can I tell when my brass is worn out? I have not been over working it just bumping back a couple thousands. What signs should I be looking for. I have fired my Grendel brass about 6 times so far.
Brass Life Expectancy - Lemonaid - 06-19-2020
Short version, primer pocket looseness, neck splitting, possible incipient case head separation.
Not all brass is created equal. I got about 9-10 reloads with Hornady, case neck were spitting. I expect Lapua to do better.
Brass Life Expectancy - Klem - 06-19-2020
JTB,
That's a $64,000 question...it depends.
If you are only bumping 3thou then incipient case separation is not going to be an issue. And unlike handgun brass it's not going to split down from the mouth unless you are working it like a pro. It more like it gets old and tired. How you define that is up to you.
Brass starts to lose ductility but as long as you keep batches together the neck tension should be the same across the strings and precision should not be affected.
The primer pocket will enlarge over multiple firings, especially with high pressure loads. Loose pockets might be the indicator you use to replace them. They won't all go equally loose so you might throw one or two away at a time until you lose confidence with the rest.
Or throw the whole batch out after an arbitrary number of firings.
I keep my brass for a few firings but the day when I don't shoot well, I start looking at the brass and that niggling doubt sets in. Cheap brass tends to get chucked whereas Lapua gets worked to the bone. Plus if it's expensive and hard to get it gets worked to death.
Brass Life Expectancy - JTB - 06-19-2020
Klem Wrote:JTB,
That's a $64,000 question...it depends.
If you are only bumping 3thou then incipient case separation is not going to be an issue. And unlike handgun brass it's not going to split down from the mouth unless you are working it like a pro. It more like it gets old and tired. How you define that is up to you.
Brass starts to lose ductility but as long as you keep batches together the neck tension should be the same across the strings and precision should not be affected.
The primer pocket will enlarge over multiple firings, especially with high pressure loads. Loose pockets might be the indicator you use to replace them. They won't all go equally loose so you might throw one or two away at a time until you lose confidence with the rest.
Or throw the whole batch out after an arbitrary number of firings.
I keep my brass for a few firings but the day when I don't shoot well, I start looking at the brass and that niggling doubt sets in. Cheap brass tends to get chucked whereas Lapua gets worked to the bone. Plus if it's expensive and hard to get it gets worked to death.
Thanks guys for the advice. After the last firing they are just looking rough. Mainly from extractor marks building up and a ding here and there. I have tried the paper clip test to check for the ring. No rings inside catching you speak of. But I have not done the best job keeping my brass separated and keeping a good count of each case and I have mixing numbers of firings all mixed together. I am about to order a couple hundred hornady or maybe Lapua. Pricey. Another question can these being mixed up cause loss of accuracy or bigger group? What you said makes sense I can tell a difference in tension while Im pressing bullets some seem to have less tension and are easier to press than others. But man there mixed all up. Ill have the random flier or even two fliers then 3-4 shots touching.
Brass Life Expectancy - Lemonaid - 06-19-2020
JTB annealing may be in your future. That kind of resets the brass from the effects of work hardening. See annealing threads on the forum or this link. https://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
Brass Life Expectancy - Klem - 06-19-2020
Yes, but you might not notice the difference if you mix them up. Depends on the precision of your gun and your ability to control other variables. To be fair it also depends on your definition of accurate and how fastidious you want to be.
If the old batch still works why not keep them for hunting or drills/plinking but keep the new batch separate for when it counts.
Brass Life Expectancy - JTB - 06-19-2020
Lemonaid Wrote:JTB annealing may be in your future. That kind of resets the brass from the effects of work hardening. See annealing threads on the forum or this link. https://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
That was my next question. Ill go check it out. I have only been reloading for about 4 months. Mostly 223 and now the Grendel. I have a lot to learn. I have been using AR Comp and 123g ELDM and 123g SMK. I am to the point now where I just want to work up another ladder test. All my results are inconsistent and it could be that I let all my brass get mixed up not knowing any better. I have shot factory Hornady Black 123 ELD at 3/4 consistent. Then I shot a ladder test and settled on 27.6 AR Comp 2.260 BR4 primer and hornady brass. Shot that again and it was not consistent. I just need to start again with fresh brass. I did this with my SPR build and found a good load quick with Reloader 15 and the results were just obvious. I just have to start over with the Grendel.
Brass Life Expectancy - JTB - 06-19-2020
Klem Wrote:Yes, but you might not notice the difference if you mix them up. Depends on the precision of your gun and your ability to control other variables. To be fair it also depends on your definition of accurate and how fastidious you want to be.
If the old batch still works why not keep them for hunting or drills/plinking but keep the new batch separate for when it counts.
Im after 3/4 or better. Ive shot that with factory Hornady black. And I will definitely keep them I actually found a decent load with the 129 ABLR and loaded 50 of them for deer season been testing with the other 50 I have. I will order a new batch start over and work up another ladder test. Barrel is a 20 ballistic advantage DMR rifle length. If I dont get consistent results I may be in the market for something a little better.
Brass Life Expectancy - Rosecrans1 - 06-19-2020
Overwhelming majority of my Hornaday brass goes 8 to 9 firings. A few in the batch will experience loose primer pockets as they degrade. Just clean them up and inspect them before and after sizing. Regardless of how they are performing, I throw them out after 9 firings and like you, I seldom push my loads into realms of uncomfortableness.
Brass Life Expectancy - jbmarshtx - 06-19-2020
Timely thread as I just revived a 10 month old thread about Alexander Arms brass. I think that mine is starline if they used it. Since I use it for hunting, I only need a few reloads out of it. I used the factory for break in and am shooting 100 TTSX loads. I'm on firing 3 of it. This is with a Howa Mini, and it looks like the cases will go just in front of the case head when they do as there is a bulge after each firing. It may be that the chamber is not as tight as that on the 700.
And as a side note, I shoot Lapua brass in my silhouette rifle. I'm on firings 4 and 5 with it. Everything looks good for it out of a remington 700.
Brass Life Expectancy - Labrat198 - 06-19-2020
JTB Wrote:I have been using AR Comp and 123g ELDM and 123g SMK. I am to the point now where I just want to work up another ladder test. All my results are inconsistent and it could be that I let all my brass get mixed up not knowing any better.
The 123 SMK's don't have a very good reputation of being consistent in the Grendel if I remember correctly.
Brass Life Expectancy - JTB - 06-20-2020
Labrat198 Wrote:The 123 SMK's don't have a very good reputation of being consistent in the Grendel if I remember correctly.
I have read that. Can you suggest another bullet? I was think ok Ill go with 130 Berger and give that a shot but I have read good things about the 107s and 120s
Brass Life Expectancy - FRB6.5 - 06-20-2020
Sierra 120 gr HPBT MatchKings are pretty much the "standard", if your barrel won't shoot those well it likely won't shoot anything well.
Brass Life Expectancy - FLshooter - 06-20-2020
I had gotten 5-6 firings out of Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass that I bought new ,before annealing.
Brass Life Expectancy - Happy2Shoot - 06-20-2020
JTB Wrote:I have read that. Can you suggest another bullet? I was think ok Ill go with 130 Berger and give that a shot but I have read good things about the 107s and 120s
120gr Berger, VARGET, and FGMM AR primers worked great for me.
Brass Life Expectancy - JTB - 06-20-2020
FRB6.5 Wrote:Sierra 120 gr HPBT MatchKings are pretty much the "standard", if your barrel won't shoot those well it likely won't shoot anything well.
I will order some 120 SMKs and I want to try a box of pro hunters and do another ladder test and report back. I worked up my first test starting at 27.2 AR Comp 2.260. I believe I am going to start at 26.2 this time and work all the way up to 28.0. I believe I am also going to use 450 primers. I am going to keep trying a little while longer and if it doesnt work out Im ordering a JP 24 barrel if I can find one. Chasing tiny groups is addicting.
Brass Life Expectancy - JTB - 06-20-2020
On another note. A spoke with a long time family friend gunsmith and bench rest shooter. I spoke with him about the rifle. Mainly some reloading advice. He handloads for the Grendel as well. First thing he ask wasnt about my reloading he asked how I broke it in. I said I went by BA recommendation. He asked how many rounds thru it at the time 200. He hands me a container of JB bore paste and a can of wipe out. Said run the JB and get the barrel clean and call him. First group shifted POI 3 high but 1 group at 103 for factory Black ELDM second was 2 high handloads with 123 ELDM 4 touching and one flier and inch high and right. It helped but once I started firing the SMK again it was 3 shots touching with 2 fliers always high. Starting over with 120s and new brass. I believe the barrel is capable. It could even be me pulling these shots. Shooting off Caldwell bags prone with scope maxed out at 12x. Rifle has a CMC flat blade trigger which is sweet.
Brass Life Expectancy - HONDO - 07-17-2020
Check this out. Might be useful for someone
https://youtu.be/1ST25CUpqhY
Brass Life Expectancy - pinetreebbs - 07-18-2020
I found three split necks in my Hornady cases this week, they had five firings.
Brass Life Expectancy - tdbru - 07-18-2020
pinetreebbs,
neck annealing is the cure for split necks. however, split necks are caused by overworking the brass. this is normal with standard reloading dies because the die makers have no clue what brass you're going to use, which could have a large variation in neck thickness, so they make sure their standard dies squeeze the neck down to a minimum size. then the expander ball will open it back up to a couple of thousands under bullet diameter. that works the brass a lot.
eventually a few die makers, and Redding comes to mind among others offer what is a bushing die where the brass body is sized down as normal, but for the neck you pick a bushing diameter that will just squeeze the neck down a minimum amount that will let you seat the bullet with enough neck tension. there is no expander ball. you have to figure out which bushing to get based upon your brass. so the folks that use these are typically using them for target shooting, working on getting a maximum amount of reloads out of the brass, and hence usually only buy/reload brass all from the same lot and mfgr to get as high a uniformity as possible. So for them it's easier to pick a neck sizing bushing that will just size their brass only enough to hold the bullet and no more. since all the brass is from the same mfgr and lot, and usually so top quality brass, like Lapua, Peterson, Nosler, etc. the neck thickness is pretty uniform in that lot.
if you scrounge brass from anywhere and everywhere, multiple manufacturers, multiple lots, multiple firings, etc. you may need to just stick with a standard full length sizing die and just neck anneal every 3rd or 4th firing. in mixed case groups of ammo one shouldn't expect as uniform internal case volume and neck tension as when all the brass in the reloads came from one lot of brass from one manufacturer. that variation in internal volume and neck tension usually translates into more dispersion and larger groups due to velocity variations. so it's up to you how you want to do your reloading process, but if you're getting neck splits, it's time to either chuck the brass into the recycle bin or learn how to neck anneal and get the tooling required for that if you want to prolong the reloading life of the rest of the cases that didn't neck split.
-tdbru