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+--- Thread: 6.5 Creed or 260 Rem (/showthread.php?tid=8818)
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6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - bwaites - 01-02-2015
Nukes Wrote:The FAL is equally a superb alternative. Verging on heresy?
From what I've read and been told, you can't wring the accuracy out of the FAL that you can out of an AR. Have I been mislead?
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - montana - 01-02-2015
bwaites Wrote:From what I've read and been told, you can't wring the accuracy out of the FAL that you can out of an AR. Have I been mislead?
Yes and no. The FAL tilting bolt can shift slightly when bullets in the mag puts pressure on the bottom of the bolt. The pressure on the bottom of the bolt changes slightly with every round that is shot from the magazine effecting accuracy. This is the disadvantage of the tilting bolt versus the rotating bolt. If you feed the rifle with one cartridge at a time thus not changing the pressure on the bottom of the bolt the accuracy can be very good. I have tried this with my DSA and it works.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - bwaites - 01-02-2015
montana Wrote:Yes and no. The FAL tilting bolt can shift slightly when bullets in the mag puts pressure on the bottom of the bolt. The pressure on the bottom of the bolt changes slightly with every round that is shot from the magazine effecting accuracy. This is the disadvantage of the tilting bolt versus the rotating bolt. If you feed the rifle with one cartridge at a time thus not changing the pressure on the bottom of the bolt the accuracy can be very good. I have tried this with my DSA and it works.Interesting! So if you make it a single shot, it works? Having some experience with single shots, that should have been semi-auto, I'll pass! LOL!
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - montana - 01-02-2015
bwaites Wrote:Interesting! So if you make it a single shot, it works? Having some experience with single shots, that should have been semi-auto, I'll pass! LOL!
The FAL is a beautiful rifle but getting them to shoot to the level of accuracy required for a sniper level platform would be a daunting task. The AR platform is far superior when accuracy is top priority. Reliability, ruggedness and aesthetics is another thing.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - Nukes - 01-03-2015
Another solution... "cone of fire" into the "beaten zone"... just one more notch forward :-)
The best I have obtained with labor intensive reloads is almost (but not quite) 2 moa, not consistently any better than decent quality bulk ammo.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - LRRPF52 - 01-03-2015
SG4247 Wrote:I have several 260's and 6.5 x 47s in AR-10. Can't buy too much ammo that's really excellent for .260. Lapua makes ammo for 6.5L that's excellent but expensive. Pretty much have to hand load it. I plan on $1 each for that brass.
Both guns will just hammer the primers. Literally pierce them from the inside out. Blows smoke and powder sparks into your face directly.
This can be dealt with however with careful reloading, ammo selection, and even some special gun components.
My best primer reliability has been with CCI 41 and 450 primers.
I have no idea if the 6.5C has the same issue, since I don't have one, but the case is so similar to 6.5x47, I would expect it does as well due to pressure curve.
LRRPF52 what have you found to be the most reliable primer in .260?
I have mostly used Rem 9 1/2's, and have not done a comparison with the other thick-walled primers. In my last trip a few weeks ago, I was getting some that were nicely dimpled, and others that were cratering, with the new firing pin. I didn't think the loads were too hot, just pushing 129gr SST's on H4350.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - tplace - 01-03-2015
Wow! I'm glad I started this thread, lots of good information here. Since I have a FAL (yeah, they are GREAT battle rifles) and an M1A, I was thinking an AR in 260 or 6.5 Creed would be the way to go but I hadn't contemplated the limitations of the gas system. I really think I will just keep the AR-10 stuff in the box and re-barrel my .308 bolt gun to .260 Rem. This thread makes me appreciate the Grendel all the more. Thanks to everyone that posted!
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - LRRPF52 - 01-03-2015
My buddy did some detailed bolt work to his .260 Rem AR10's, ArmaLite Inc. factory guns, and got rid of the harsh treatment of brass with even RL17 loads pushing 142gr SMK's from Lapua brass.
He also made his own 26" extended length gas system .260 Rem AR10 with a Krieger barrel, to deal with the port pressures.
.308 with pills like the 175gr SMK and 178gr Hornady pushed by slower powders have the same problems, hitting the port with higher pressures. Some people try to address this with adjustable gas blocks, but that's really a temporary band-aid solution.
I'm going to install the AR10 JP SCS in mine I think to see if it helps.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - Nukes - 01-03-2015
LRRPF52 Wrote:...I'm going to install the AR10 JP SCS in mine I think to see if it helps.
I didn't have much fun trying to remove one of them from an AR15.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - LRRPF52 - 01-03-2015
Nukes Wrote:I didn't have much fun trying to remove one of them from an AR15.
Just leave the buffer retainer out. It becomes an unnecessary part with the SCS, since the SCS is already self-contained/captured.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - bwaites - 01-03-2015
LRRPF52 Wrote:My buddy did some detailed bolt work to his .260 Rem AR10's, ArmaLite Inc. factory guns, and got rid of the harsh treatment of brass with even RL17 loads pushing 142gr SMK's from Lapua brass.
He also made his own 26" extended length gas system .260 Rem AR10 with a Krieger barrel, to deal with the port pressures.
.308 with pills like the 175gr SMK and 178gr Hornady pushed by slower powders have the same problems, hitting the port with higher pressures. Some people try to address this with adjustable gas blocks, but that's really a temporary band-aid solution.
I'm going to install the AR10 JP SCS in mine I think to see if it helps.
New system on the market specifically designed to mitigate recoil.
http://www.shootinginnovationsllc.com/recoil-reduction-system.html
I'm trying one in a Beowulf.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - Nukes - 01-03-2015
LRRPF52 Wrote:Just leave the buffer retainer out. It becomes an unnecessary part with the SCS, since the SCS is already self-contained/captured.
Interesting. Thank you.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - Buster - 01-03-2015
bwaites Wrote:New system on the market specifically designed to mitigate recoil.
http://www.shootinginnovationsllc.com/recoil-reduction-system.html
I'm trying one in a Beowulf.
Please let us know how it works
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - SG4247 - 01-03-2015
I actually got my .260 out to the range today. Heck it warmed up to 41F.
This rifle has the JPSCS.
New addition was the five port brake.
Rifle ran perfectly and recoil was actually mild.
Notice I have a limb saver recoil pad on it also.
Very pleased with it. I was shooting 123 and 130 grain pills.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6070[/ATTACH]
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - tplace - 01-03-2015
SG4247 Wrote:I actually got my .260 out to the range today. Heck it warmed up to 41F.
This rifle has the JPSCS.
New addition was the five port brake.
Rifle ran perfectly and recoil was actually mild.
Notice I have a limb saver recoil pad on it also.
Very pleased with it. I was shooting 123 and 130 grain pills.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6070[/ATTACH]
Just curious, before the addition of the brake, the JPSCS, and the limb saver, was recoil that sharp?
Good looking rig by the way.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - SG4247 - 01-04-2015
Thanks,
Yes it was a hammer.
The five port brake was the best addition, over a three port for recoil reduction.
I didn't notice much reduction with the JPSCS.
This has significantly less recoil than a .308 AR
BUT, I was shooting mild 123/130 grain pills with 36.5 gr of Varget.
Not 140/155/168 pills with a hot load.
6.5 Creed or 260 Rem - bwaites - 01-05-2015
Buster Wrote:Please let us know how it works
First run over the weekend showed definite improvement, but we need to swap springs to get full function. The standard spring isn't taking it all the way back into battery.