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I have a new Aero Precision ar-10 upper and lower that I bought originally to build a .308 rifle, that was before I became hooked on the Grendel specifically and 6.5mm in general; however, now that my Grendel build is finished I find myself looking at my AR-10 parts more and more.
I am having a back and forth with myself over which way to go: Creed or .260? The attractive thing about the .260 is the supply of .308 brass I have on-hand and the fact that I can neck it down for the .260. On the other hand, looking at the numbers for the Creed make it very attractive, I just don't know if the difference is worth chasing a different stock of brass.
Has anyone had a .260 and then switched to the Creed (or vice versa)? Anyone have both?
Thanks!
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I have a 260 in a bolt gun and it out peforms the creedmoore easily. Mine shoots more on par with a 6.5x284. Thats because i have a 28 inch barrel though. Quality brass availibility is the biggest difference...
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performance is equal. There is Lapua brass for .260 though. Gas gun in either is not the same as bolt gun, you will find that reasonable bolt gun loads will blow primers in the gas gun.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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...and there is Nosler brass (manufactured by Winchester, then sorted, prepped, and re-branded I understand) for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
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Nosler is very good brass
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I am a .260 guy (bolt) , can't help w/gas gun decision but ammo may be a factor for some. You will find more box ammo options for the 6.5 creed.
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Without high-jacking this thread, I have a model 7 receiver with a 223 bolt. Can I change the bolt and barrel "basically" and go 260 Rem.?
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Im going to throw a wrench into your mix and say 7mm-08.
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RAM2940 Wrote:Im going to throw a wrench into your mix and say 7mm-08.
I was going to say, do both, build a .260 and a Creedmoor
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I have had two .260 Remington AR10's, and currently own the later one, built by GA Precision with a Bartlein barrel. I have many friends with .260's and 6.5 CM's, as well as 6.5x47 Lapua's (in bolt guns mostly).
.260 Remington Pro's:
* More factory brass availability
* brass is thicker
* More case capacity
* Same shoulder angle and location as .308, works very well from mags meant for the large AR's
6.5 Creedmoor Pro's
* 30 degree shoulder burns efficiently
* Load recipe printed on Hornady factory ammo boxes
* Good barrel life
* Hornady is doing a lot to support the cartridge
Con's for both:
These are basically hand-loader's cartridges only in the gas guns, unless you shoot the 120gr hunting or lighter loads. Once you get into target pills of 123gr and higher, the slow-burning powders hit the gas port much harder, and violently drive the bolt carrier to the rear, when the case is still obturated in the chamber. To mitigate that, I use H4350 under 129gr and 130gr pills, to achieve fast enough muzzle velocity to make it worth it.
The 6.5 Creedmoor brass is actually quite thin, which doesn't bode well for brass life. I think Hornady really pushed the edge to be competitive with the .260 Remington, and in order to make up for loss of case capacity by using the 30 TC parent case, they thinned the walls.
The .260 Remington, especially the Lapua brass, has very thick case walls, which deal with a gas gun cycling much better, and helps with bra$$ life.
One problem for you will be with your existing .308 brass, in that you will have to trim the diameter and uniform all your necks, as the sizing process will accumulate the mass so that the necks are too thick to load and chamber after the bullet is seated.
With either of them, you will need to pay close attention to your neck lengths, and trim and uniform as they grow. My .260 Rem sees a lot of neck growth with these high pressures, so reloading for it is a pain if you're not set up already. Failure to uniform the necks spreads the ES all over the place.
For your recoil system, seriously look at getting the JP AR10 SCS if you decide to move forward with this. The main advantage the 6.5-08 variants have is being able to duplicate 300 WinMag trajectory, with less recoil than a .308, with energy like a .30-06 from about 275yds on out.
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6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
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LRRPF52 Wrote:...The 6.5 Creedmoor brass is actually quite thin, which doesn't bode well for brass life. I think Hornady really pushed the edge to be competitive with the .260 Remington, and in order to make up for loss of case capacity by using the 30 TC parent case, they thinned the walls....
We "inherited" some Hornady brass when I bought our 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. Lord knows how many +P loadings they saw before us, but that brass has seen 8-10 loadings since they arrived without any defects that I have noticed. That said, I now buy only the Nosler brass for the 6.5 Creed.
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Nukes. I got the 140 gr Creedmoor Winchester Match rounds. It has the stamp WIN on the brass. Do you know if this is the same brass that is used by Nosler? Is it made by Winchester?
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Walter Wrote:Nukes. I got the 140 gr Creedmoor Winchester Match rounds. It has the stamp WIN on the brass. Do you know if this is the same brass that is used by Nosler? Is it made by Winchester?
It seems a reasonable guess, but I am sorry that I don't know for sure. Only a few days ago in a discussion about Lapua versus Nosler brass, Jason at Bruno's mentioned that Nosler brass is just Winchester brass that has been carefully selected and prepped, softer than Lapua brass.
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The guys on this forum know more than google.
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I have several 260's and 6.5 x 47s in AR-10. Can't buy too much ammo that's really excellent for .260. Lapua makes ammo for 6.5L that's excellent but expensive. Pretty much have to hand load it. I plan on $1 each for that brass.
Both guns will just hammer the primers. Literally pierce them from the inside out. Blows smoke and powder sparks into your face directly.
This can be dealt with however with careful reloading, ammo selection, and even some special gun components.
My best primer reliability has been with CCI 41 and 450 primers.
I have no idea if the 6.5C has the same issue, since I don't have one, but the case is so similar to 6.5x47, I would expect it does as well due to pressure curve.
LRRPF52 what have you found to be the most reliable primer in .260?
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All of these issues are because there is no factory load for gas guns in any of these calibers, all the loads are for bolt guns. Gas guns run at similar pressures will pierce and blow primers exactly as described.
You MUST Handload for gas guns in these 3 calibers and the loads have to be milder than factory loads are. The gap between the Grendel and these three narrows because of that. They still beat the Grendel, but with 123 and lighter bullets it isn't as big as you'd think.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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Very good point BW.
I keep thinking I can make the 6.5 x 47 AR push a 140 grainer VLD just like the heavy bolt guns.
Reality is, even the best commercial AR hardware that is available just won't take it.
It will shoot a 123 grainer at 2950, just not for very long before it ceases to function.
Best speed with the 140 grainer in my AR so far is 2600. The bolt guns frequently run 2850.
These facts make the Grendel a superb alternative.
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Walter Wrote:The guys on this forum know more than google.
They ARE 'google'. 
Lifetime: NRA, GOA, 2AF
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SG4247 Wrote:Very good point BW.
I keep thinking I can make the 6.5 x 47 AR push a 140 grainer VLD just like the heavy bolt guns.
Reality is, even the best commercial AR hardware that is available just won't take it.
It will shoot a 123 grainer at 2950, just not for very long before it ceases to function.
Best speed with the 140 grainer in my AR so far is 2600. The bolt guns frequently run 2850.
These facts make the Grendel a superb alternative.
The FAL is equally a superb alternative. Verging on heresy?
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