https://65grendel.com/ Fri, 25 Sep 2026 01:47:04 +0000 MyBB https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25928 Fri, 22 Sep 2023 11:14:03 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25928
When I look at the Litz tested vs advertised BC data for the 107gr SMK, then compare with the 108gr ELD-M Doppler Radar track data from Hornady, this is what I’m getting:

I’m using barrel length data for the 6mm ARC provided by Hornady, Hornady’s Doppler Radar Program, Litz data for the 107gr 6.5mm SMK, and my own muzzle velocity readings across multiple 18”, 17.6”, 16”, and 12” Grendels.



12” 6mm ARC
6mm 108gr ELD-M, 2350fps hand load with CFE223 or LeverEvolution, 23.8” Hg (higher altitude/lower air density where I shoot a lot), 59 deg F

300yds 1981fps 941ft-lbs 1.4 mil drop .5 drift
600yds 1643fps 647ft-lbs 5.0 mils / 1.1 drift
800yds 1437fps 495ft-lbs 8.1 / 1.6
1000yds 1270fps 387ft-lbs 11.3 / 2.0
1150yds 1118fps 300ft-lbs 15.2 / 2.6
1200yds 1085fps 283ft-lbs 16.4 / 2.7

12” 6.5 Grendel
107gr SMK, .230 G7 BC model, 2475fps hand load with IMR 8208XBR (~ 49,000psi), 23.8” Hg, 59 deg F

300yds 2053fps 1001ft-lbs 1.4 / 0.6
600yds 1673fps 665ft-lbs 4.7 / 1.3
800yds 1441fps 494ft-lbs 7.7 / 1.8
1000yds 1225fps 356ft-lbs 11.3 / 2.5
1150yds 1099fps 287ft-lbs 14.6 / 3.1
1200yds 1077fps 276ft-lbs 15.9 / 3.2

6.5 Grendel with 107gr SMK has velocity, momentum, and less drop advantage out to 1000yds, while 6mm 108gr ELD-M has wind deflection advantage from 300 on out by .1, .2, and .5 mils to 1000yds.

Both are supersonic to 1150yds at this altitude. When I drop it to sea level, the 6mm/108gr ELD-M is supersonic to 900yds and the 6.5mm/107 SMK is supersonic to 875yds.

I used my 107gr SMK data in my ballistics program when I was shooting the 110gr PPU, and they seemed to work well. So well that I got 3 for 3 at 780yds and 1st-round hit at 900yds on a 12” plate. The 107-110gr class of bullets are really flat from even the little 12” Grendel.

It basically made me question my plans to get a 6mm ARC, since I’m basically getting 6mm ARC performance already.

I need a sanity check on the trajectories in case I made a mistake somewhere. It would be fun to put 2 of them side-by-side.

There does seem to be an advantage in running the system at lower pressure though, looking at Hodgdon’s pressure data for IMR 8208 XBR under a 107gr SMK.

Thoughts.....?]]>
When I look at the Litz tested vs advertised BC data for the 107gr SMK, then compare with the 108gr ELD-M Doppler Radar track data from Hornady, this is what I’m getting:

I’m using barrel length data for the 6mm ARC provided by Hornady, Hornady’s Doppler Radar Program, Litz data for the 107gr 6.5mm SMK, and my own muzzle velocity readings across multiple 18”, 17.6”, 16”, and 12” Grendels.



12” 6mm ARC
6mm 108gr ELD-M, 2350fps hand load with CFE223 or LeverEvolution, 23.8” Hg (higher altitude/lower air density where I shoot a lot), 59 deg F

300yds 1981fps 941ft-lbs 1.4 mil drop .5 drift
600yds 1643fps 647ft-lbs 5.0 mils / 1.1 drift
800yds 1437fps 495ft-lbs 8.1 / 1.6
1000yds 1270fps 387ft-lbs 11.3 / 2.0
1150yds 1118fps 300ft-lbs 15.2 / 2.6
1200yds 1085fps 283ft-lbs 16.4 / 2.7

12” 6.5 Grendel
107gr SMK, .230 G7 BC model, 2475fps hand load with IMR 8208XBR (~ 49,000psi), 23.8” Hg, 59 deg F

300yds 2053fps 1001ft-lbs 1.4 / 0.6
600yds 1673fps 665ft-lbs 4.7 / 1.3
800yds 1441fps 494ft-lbs 7.7 / 1.8
1000yds 1225fps 356ft-lbs 11.3 / 2.5
1150yds 1099fps 287ft-lbs 14.6 / 3.1
1200yds 1077fps 276ft-lbs 15.9 / 3.2

6.5 Grendel with 107gr SMK has velocity, momentum, and less drop advantage out to 1000yds, while 6mm 108gr ELD-M has wind deflection advantage from 300 on out by .1, .2, and .5 mils to 1000yds.

Both are supersonic to 1150yds at this altitude. When I drop it to sea level, the 6mm/108gr ELD-M is supersonic to 900yds and the 6.5mm/107 SMK is supersonic to 875yds.

I used my 107gr SMK data in my ballistics program when I was shooting the 110gr PPU, and they seemed to work well. So well that I got 3 for 3 at 780yds and 1st-round hit at 900yds on a 12” plate. The 107-110gr class of bullets are really flat from even the little 12” Grendel.

It basically made me question my plans to get a 6mm ARC, since I’m basically getting 6mm ARC performance already.

I need a sanity check on the trajectories in case I made a mistake somewhere. It would be fun to put 2 of them side-by-side.

There does seem to be an advantage in running the system at lower pressure though, looking at Hodgdon’s pressure data for IMR 8208 XBR under a 107gr SMK.

Thoughts.....?]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25777 Thu, 06 Jul 2023 17:59:46 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25777
We did the zero confirmation day 1, grouping exercises, and dot drills, then started working the steel out from 200yds to 1000yds.

We had new shooters to LR making 2nd round hits on reduced IPSC steel at 1000yds with 6.5 Grendel, which was cool.

As night fell, we broke out several Night Vision equipped carbines.

I had a lot of fun shooting multiple rounds in the air at 700yds, suppressed, with a 6x NV Scope with a good Mil reticle.

“Kssk..Kssk.....Ding..Ding"

We worked the steel from 200yds on out with NV, then went and did some pistol work in the shoot house/Cowboy Town area.

This is one the ranges from a previous course:



Day 2, Morning 1, my buddy made a first-round hit with his 12.5” suppressed Odin Works 6.5 Grendel shooting 123gr Hornady America Gunner.

One of the guys I was coaching was shooting 110gr PPU through my 17.6” Lilja Grendel, and made hits out to 900yds with it on 18” square plates.

The 110gr PPU did way better than I expected, given my last trip to the range with it where it was shooting 3” groups at 100yds.

I used my data for 107gr SMK in place for the 110gr FMJ and it seemed to be spot-on.

We also had it where you could shoot a 22” .223 bolt gun with 69gr or 77gr, 5.56 carbines shooting 55gr and 77gr, 6.5 Grendel 12” to 18”, and a .308 Tikka bolt gun back-to-back for comparison.

12” 6.5 Grendel hits the steel so much harder than the 22” .223 Rem, both allowing you to maintain sight picture while seeing your rounds go in.

.308 Winchester target rifle still jumps off target with the shot so you can’t see the impact. I’ve said this for years, but it’s validating to see it demonstrated back-to-back with the other blasters.

We laser-ranged all the targets and built a panoramic sketch so shooters could reference the targets.

Depending on what position you are on from the firing points, you can see targets the other position can’t see, which made it more fun.

I really enjoy that range complex every time I go down there.]]>
We did the zero confirmation day 1, grouping exercises, and dot drills, then started working the steel out from 200yds to 1000yds.

We had new shooters to LR making 2nd round hits on reduced IPSC steel at 1000yds with 6.5 Grendel, which was cool.

As night fell, we broke out several Night Vision equipped carbines.

I had a lot of fun shooting multiple rounds in the air at 700yds, suppressed, with a 6x NV Scope with a good Mil reticle.

“Kssk..Kssk.....Ding..Ding"

We worked the steel from 200yds on out with NV, then went and did some pistol work in the shoot house/Cowboy Town area.

This is one the ranges from a previous course:



Day 2, Morning 1, my buddy made a first-round hit with his 12.5” suppressed Odin Works 6.5 Grendel shooting 123gr Hornady America Gunner.

One of the guys I was coaching was shooting 110gr PPU through my 17.6” Lilja Grendel, and made hits out to 900yds with it on 18” square plates.

The 110gr PPU did way better than I expected, given my last trip to the range with it where it was shooting 3” groups at 100yds.

I used my data for 107gr SMK in place for the 110gr FMJ and it seemed to be spot-on.

We also had it where you could shoot a 22” .223 bolt gun with 69gr or 77gr, 5.56 carbines shooting 55gr and 77gr, 6.5 Grendel 12” to 18”, and a .308 Tikka bolt gun back-to-back for comparison.

12” 6.5 Grendel hits the steel so much harder than the 22” .223 Rem, both allowing you to maintain sight picture while seeing your rounds go in.

.308 Winchester target rifle still jumps off target with the shot so you can’t see the impact. I’ve said this for years, but it’s validating to see it demonstrated back-to-back with the other blasters.

We laser-ranged all the targets and built a panoramic sketch so shooters could reference the targets.

Depending on what position you are on from the firing points, you can see targets the other position can’t see, which made it more fun.

I really enjoy that range complex every time I go down there.]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25767 Sun, 02 Jul 2023 11:51:49 -0600 Bladedancer13]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25767
In my rabbit hole of a search I have not yet uncovered any lighter alternatives to either of these that fit the requirements set forth in the concept build. Thus far my only deviation that I am allowing is the caliber and I am choosing the 6.5 Grendel.

Does anyone know of alternatives to either of items in question that I simiply have not found? At this point cost doesn't matter as I understand that the build is going to be very pricey and I am fully expecting an expensive rifle.



https://www.opticsplanet.com/fab-defense...rrier.html

https://blklblbipod.com/products/]]>
In my rabbit hole of a search I have not yet uncovered any lighter alternatives to either of these that fit the requirements set forth in the concept build. Thus far my only deviation that I am allowing is the caliber and I am choosing the 6.5 Grendel.

Does anyone know of alternatives to either of items in question that I simiply have not found? At this point cost doesn't matter as I understand that the build is going to be very pricey and I am fully expecting an expensive rifle.



https://www.opticsplanet.com/fab-defense...rrier.html

https://blklblbipod.com/products/]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25754 Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:58:34 -0600 rickt300]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25754 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25625 Sat, 06 May 2023 11:14:25 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25625
I’m not sure if some butt clown in the depths of a basement in DC is throttling our website or what’s going on, but we ship to every zip code in the US, AK, and HI.

If you get that message when ordering, please reach out to me at orders@ar15buildbox.com so we can take care of you.

We ship handbooks usually within 12hr of the order.

Shop page]]>
I’m not sure if some butt clown in the depths of a basement in DC is throttling our website or what’s going on, but we ship to every zip code in the US, AK, and HI.

If you get that message when ordering, please reach out to me at orders@ar15buildbox.com so we can take care of you.

We ship handbooks usually within 12hr of the order.

Shop page]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=22081 Sun, 27 Sep 2020 16:37:53 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=22081
Several brought 6.5 Grendel AR15s, including 12.5” Ballistic Advantage suppressed, and 16” AA barrel builds.

They shot Wolf steel case using a lot of what appeared to be CProducts mags.

I ran a 25rd mag quickly through the 12.5” suppressed, followed by the owner putting another mag through it doing 1-5 drill at night.

The only malfunction I saw was when someone had accidentally loaded a .223 round in a stack of Grendel rounds. It wouldn’t chamber, unlike .223 in 7.62x39 (sometimes will chamber and fire) or 300 BLK in .223(will chamber and fire/grenade).

This was 2 days and 1 night of shooting high volume, lots of CQM drills, mag change standing and kneeling day/night, turns, dot drills, Weapon Light manipulation drills with displacement, then shooting in a shoot village with 18 different bays.

My normal reports about 6.5 Grendel in higher volume have been from DM courses, where we aren’t hosing away, but will still put 250-350 rounds through the rifles over 2-3 days.

This course saw cases of Wolf eaten rapidly.

Rapid shot string placement at 7yds was about twice the group size of .223, due to recoil, but still well within the A Zone on IPSC targets.

I need to do some more with a comparison of the different loads in 6.5 Grendel in CQM vs 5.56/.223 Rem.

Just thought I’d share some of the observations I noticed.]]>
Several brought 6.5 Grendel AR15s, including 12.5” Ballistic Advantage suppressed, and 16” AA barrel builds.

They shot Wolf steel case using a lot of what appeared to be CProducts mags.

I ran a 25rd mag quickly through the 12.5” suppressed, followed by the owner putting another mag through it doing 1-5 drill at night.

The only malfunction I saw was when someone had accidentally loaded a .223 round in a stack of Grendel rounds. It wouldn’t chamber, unlike .223 in 7.62x39 (sometimes will chamber and fire) or 300 BLK in .223(will chamber and fire/grenade).

This was 2 days and 1 night of shooting high volume, lots of CQM drills, mag change standing and kneeling day/night, turns, dot drills, Weapon Light manipulation drills with displacement, then shooting in a shoot village with 18 different bays.

My normal reports about 6.5 Grendel in higher volume have been from DM courses, where we aren’t hosing away, but will still put 250-350 rounds through the rifles over 2-3 days.

This course saw cases of Wolf eaten rapidly.

Rapid shot string placement at 7yds was about twice the group size of .223, due to recoil, but still well within the A Zone on IPSC targets.

I need to do some more with a comparison of the different loads in 6.5 Grendel in CQM vs 5.56/.223 Rem.

Just thought I’d share some of the observations I noticed.]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=20878 Sun, 22 Mar 2020 16:15:28 -0600 FLshooter]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=20878 Okay, I live in Florida.I want an AR15 pistol, probably 7.5 inch barrel. But my wrist has bone chips in it.I can’t handle much recoil until I get surgery. So I’m thinking I would like to take an AR 15 pistol lower and put an AR15 rifle stock on it so the recoil will be impacted on my shoulder not wrist.
I know having a barrel shorter than 16 inches with a rifle stock turns it into a short barreled rifle,SBR. I know I need to get a permit for it. And even though I looked it up online,I’m not really sure how to go about it.
I think there are guys on 6.5 Grendel.com who have the answer. Probably LRRPF52. Anyway I’d like to know how to go about doing this before I build it. I know an FFL would have the answer. But I’m asking you guys first ,because at this point it’s just a thought. And I really am not sure if it would be worth the bother of having to go through all the red tape.]]> Okay, I live in Florida.I want an AR15 pistol, probably 7.5 inch barrel. But my wrist has bone chips in it.I can’t handle much recoil until I get surgery. So I’m thinking I would like to take an AR 15 pistol lower and put an AR15 rifle stock on it so the recoil will be impacted on my shoulder not wrist.
I know having a barrel shorter than 16 inches with a rifle stock turns it into a short barreled rifle,SBR. I know I need to get a permit for it. And even though I looked it up online,I’m not really sure how to go about it.
I think there are guys on 6.5 Grendel.com who have the answer. Probably LRRPF52. Anyway I’d like to know how to go about doing this before I build it. I know an FFL would have the answer. But I’m asking you guys first ,because at this point it’s just a thought. And I really am not sure if it would be worth the bother of having to go through all the red tape.]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=20853 Thu, 19 Mar 2020 12:12:52 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=20853 AR15 Build Box is in full-swing to move forward through these challenging times.

Our main focus right now is servicing existing customers and orders on the soft goods side, as well as packaging solutions for our B2B customers.

The 6.5 Grendel Handbooks and 6.5 Grendel/6mm AR/6mm ARC Chamber Brushes are shipping regularly as usual. We are fully-stocked and ready to ship as soon as we get your order.

Most of our suppliers have sent emails indicating that they are still filling orders for materials, although most have shut down any retail or showroom fronts that they operate, which has no consequence on our relationships with them. We have plenty of materials currently to fill Boonie Hat Orders, and are actually a bit behind the demand for hats as we work to fill those orders.

We're actually expanding through all of this, and I've been testing a cool concealed carry/emergency preparedness covert system that discreetly and comfortably carries:

First Aid kit
EDC Light
Medical gloves
Wallet
Lighter
CCW pistol
4 spare mags
Smart Phone
550 cord
Expandable kit options

I've been wearing the prototype for about a year now, taking notes on what I like and don't like, what worked, and what needs further development.

So the future is actually bright on our end. I come from American pioneer ancestry on one side, and stubborn Finnish heritage on the other. They all faced far greater physical and economic difficulties than we have, so we'll get through this and look back with fading memories of the virus, the earthquakes (we had a 5.7 and two 4.6s just a few miles from us yesterday), and media headlines.

God bless you all as we grind through 2020-2021 with resolute enthusiasm, dedication, and cool heads!]]> AR15 Build Box is in full-swing to move forward through these challenging times.

Our main focus right now is servicing existing customers and orders on the soft goods side, as well as packaging solutions for our B2B customers.

The 6.5 Grendel Handbooks and 6.5 Grendel/6mm AR/6mm ARC Chamber Brushes are shipping regularly as usual. We are fully-stocked and ready to ship as soon as we get your order.

Most of our suppliers have sent emails indicating that they are still filling orders for materials, although most have shut down any retail or showroom fronts that they operate, which has no consequence on our relationships with them. We have plenty of materials currently to fill Boonie Hat Orders, and are actually a bit behind the demand for hats as we work to fill those orders.

We're actually expanding through all of this, and I've been testing a cool concealed carry/emergency preparedness covert system that discreetly and comfortably carries:

First Aid kit
EDC Light
Medical gloves
Wallet
Lighter
CCW pistol
4 spare mags
Smart Phone
550 cord
Expandable kit options

I've been wearing the prototype for about a year now, taking notes on what I like and don't like, what worked, and what needs further development.

So the future is actually bright on our end. I come from American pioneer ancestry on one side, and stubborn Finnish heritage on the other. They all faced far greater physical and economic difficulties than we have, so we'll get through this and look back with fading memories of the virus, the earthquakes (we had a 5.7 and two 4.6s just a few miles from us yesterday), and media headlines.

God bless you all as we grind through 2020-2021 with resolute enthusiasm, dedication, and cool heads!]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=20162 Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:19:44 -0700 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=20162 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=18747 Fri, 12 Apr 2019 13:07:40 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=18747
I prefer to get head size in inches.

For head type, the main thing I'm looking at is low dome vs high dome.




]]>
I prefer to get head size in inches.

For head type, the main thing I'm looking at is low dome vs high dome.




]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=17707 Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:16:00 -0700 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=17707
We've had a great time with this course in the past, with lots of lessons learned on your true capabilities, as well as the limitations of equipment and skill when the weather gets really bad.

Sometimes the weather doesn't cooperate and we get nice, pleasant days, or sometimes it snows sideways on Day 1, and the sun comes out Day 2.

I'll leave it a bit open to gauge where people's schedules are, then finalize a date.

Classes are small since it isn't fair to stack you deep to the point where I can't provide quality instruction and individual feedback for each attendee.


A few pictures from past courses:







]]>
We've had a great time with this course in the past, with lots of lessons learned on your true capabilities, as well as the limitations of equipment and skill when the weather gets really bad.

Sometimes the weather doesn't cooperate and we get nice, pleasant days, or sometimes it snows sideways on Day 1, and the sun comes out Day 2.

I'll leave it a bit open to gauge where people's schedules are, then finalize a date.

Classes are small since it isn't fair to stack you deep to the point where I can't provide quality instruction and individual feedback for each attendee.


A few pictures from past courses:







]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=17693 Wed, 12 Dec 2018 07:19:58 -0700 Kenney0928]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=17693 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=17391 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 09:59:08 -0700 Frontier Gear]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=17391

1. Are there any current plans for a volume 3 now that we have multiple manufactures producing Grendel bolt actions? Howa even announced a new mag that was designed for ~2.500" allowable COAL.
   
2. I noticed that some of the effective range charts are different than ones that have been posted on this forum recently. Can you explain the reasoning behind this? For example, compare Table 3.1 in volume 2 to the effective range posted here. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...Comparison
   

]]>

1. Are there any current plans for a volume 3 now that we have multiple manufactures producing Grendel bolt actions? Howa even announced a new mag that was designed for ~2.500" allowable COAL.
   
2. I noticed that some of the effective range charts are different than ones that have been posted on this forum recently. Can you explain the reasoning behind this? For example, compare Table 3.1 in volume 2 to the effective range posted here. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...Comparison
   

]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=16813 Tue, 07 Aug 2018 08:44:55 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=16813
Machine or hand washing in cold is fine, followed by drip drying.



One thing I've been doing this summer is soaking my hat in ice water, then putting it on when it's really hot outside.

We've had a lot of 90-100˚F days.

When that breeze blows through the mesh, it's like your own personal A/C system.

PS: For those that placed orders within the past 2 weeks, I haven't forgotten about you.

Those will be shipping this week, and sorry for the delay.

I've been making a lot of special-ordered, custom nylon gear like this:





]]>
Machine or hand washing in cold is fine, followed by drip drying.



One thing I've been doing this summer is soaking my hat in ice water, then putting it on when it's really hot outside.

We've had a lot of 90-100˚F days.

When that breeze blows through the mesh, it's like your own personal A/C system.

PS: For those that placed orders within the past 2 weeks, I haven't forgotten about you.

Those will be shipping this week, and sorry for the delay.

I've been making a lot of special-ordered, custom nylon gear like this:





]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=16384 Thu, 07 Jun 2018 18:47:58 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=16384

I used worst-case velocities we've been seeing with the newer Hornady 123gr SST lots of ammo.

123gr ELD-M seems to be faster like the old 123gr AMAX load. Supersonic range has the corresponding wind drift with it. 123gr ELD-M isn't the best bullet for long range, but one of the most popular and available, so I used that.

I used .255 doppler-based G7 drag model for the longer range figures with 123gr ELD-M.

I used .462 G1 for the "within 500yds" figures on the 123gr SST for hunting.

All figures are with 100yd zero, 2.5" optic over bore height, standard atmospheric conditions (59° F, 29.53" hg barometric pressure).

Another graph to look at would be weapon weight with pictograph diagrams showing weapon length and profiles.

I need to make a 3D graph showing trajectory and drift, and a weapon size profile graph comparing 6.5 Grendels with other known rifles/cartridges.

]]>

I used worst-case velocities we've been seeing with the newer Hornady 123gr SST lots of ammo.

123gr ELD-M seems to be faster like the old 123gr AMAX load. Supersonic range has the corresponding wind drift with it. 123gr ELD-M isn't the best bullet for long range, but one of the most popular and available, so I used that.

I used .255 doppler-based G7 drag model for the longer range figures with 123gr ELD-M.

I used .462 G1 for the "within 500yds" figures on the 123gr SST for hunting.

All figures are with 100yd zero, 2.5" optic over bore height, standard atmospheric conditions (59° F, 29.53" hg barometric pressure).

Another graph to look at would be weapon weight with pictograph diagrams showing weapon length and profiles.

I need to make a 3D graph showing trajectory and drift, and a weapon size profile graph comparing 6.5 Grendels with other known rifles/cartridges.

]]>