https://65grendel.com/ Fri, 25 Sep 2026 01:47:06 +0000 MyBB https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26227 Mon, 19 Feb 2024 20:30:08 -0700 cwlongshot]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26227
https://youtu.be/gIpWuhQxsRw?si=2VDR2BFt-T5oYq3l

But since changing it back to as you see above. I have extra parts. My first inclination was to build a second Grendel but with the 20" heavier barrel. But it seemd foolish ta have THREE Grendels... ( Yea I know I have had 5 Black outs at one time..) In looking, I didnt want another Legend, didnt need another 223... Never was inclined to have a Ruski. Then as mentioned, REALLY dont need another Black out! . Who whats this??? The 6 ARC!!! Its a Grendel SPAWN!!!

I started watching videos and reading magazine articles and I WAS HOOKED.

So tonight I sit here in tge man room... 5, 50 rnd plastic boxes of ammo loaded. (Three FF loads with 30-40 pcs made from ruski brass & two ladders with two different powders and bullets.)

I have a Boyds Pro Varmint stock all refinished. I have Dip Bottom Metal and 5 Magazines. I have a EGW 20 MOA rail and a set if $$ 30mm rings and a Hawke Conqurer 3-15 scope all ready and waiting.

I picked up a set of Foster Bench-rest dies on sale 110$ (Reddings was 130$) Yesterday found a couple
Boxes of Sierra 90g Game Changers @ Cabelas. Last week I ordered 5 boxes of Speer 85g BT SP bullets 20$ a box!! I have a few pounds of Lever Evolution and 8# jug of 2520.

I ordered the barrelled action and that should be here soon.

I never was patient waiting on firearms...


CW]]>
https://youtu.be/gIpWuhQxsRw?si=2VDR2BFt-T5oYq3l

But since changing it back to as you see above. I have extra parts. My first inclination was to build a second Grendel but with the 20" heavier barrel. But it seemd foolish ta have THREE Grendels... ( Yea I know I have had 5 Black outs at one time..) In looking, I didnt want another Legend, didnt need another 223... Never was inclined to have a Ruski. Then as mentioned, REALLY dont need another Black out! . Who whats this??? The 6 ARC!!! Its a Grendel SPAWN!!!

I started watching videos and reading magazine articles and I WAS HOOKED.

So tonight I sit here in tge man room... 5, 50 rnd plastic boxes of ammo loaded. (Three FF loads with 30-40 pcs made from ruski brass & two ladders with two different powders and bullets.)

I have a Boyds Pro Varmint stock all refinished. I have Dip Bottom Metal and 5 Magazines. I have a EGW 20 MOA rail and a set if $$ 30mm rings and a Hawke Conqurer 3-15 scope all ready and waiting.

I picked up a set of Foster Bench-rest dies on sale 110$ (Reddings was 130$) Yesterday found a couple
Boxes of Sierra 90g Game Changers @ Cabelas. Last week I ordered 5 boxes of Speer 85g BT SP bullets 20$ a box!! I have a few pounds of Lever Evolution and 8# jug of 2520.

I ordered the barrelled action and that should be here soon.

I never was patient waiting on firearms...


CW]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26218 Tue, 23 Jan 2024 21:59:28 -0700 Bob R]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26218
I have been waiting for a nice day to Chronograph for Two Weeks. My old school Chronograph with Sky Screens needs a nice day to work.
Old School was replaced with the latest and greatest today.
This morning I loaded up the 22 ARC and made a trip to Hunts Long Range Gun Shop near Summersville MO. Along with the 22 ARC AR15 I brought a box of Unobtanium. Hornady 22 ARC Black 75 gr ELD Match #81541 Ammunition.

The AR 15 used has a new 20" (H-Bar Profile ?) Saturn/Liberty Barrel.

Weather Conditions: Very High Humidity, Fog, Misting Rain, and High 30's.
Chronograph Used: Garman Xero C1
Temperature: 65 Degrees. (Firing was done from indoors)
Ammunition Temperature: 65 Degrees
Ammunition Tested: Hornady 22 ARC Black 75 Grain ELD-Match #81541
Hornady Advertised Velocity (24" Test Barrel): 3075 FPS

GARMAN Xero C1 Chronograph Results
Average Velocity (3 Shots): 2949 FPS
Standard Deviation: 4.8 FPS

Actual 20" Velocity was 126 FPS slower than the 24" Advertised Velocity.

Actual Velocity was Dead On with my Predicted Velocity based on the following.
The Shooters Note Book Velocity Corrector Estimated the Velocity for the 20" Barrel to be 2983 FPS. The Corrector predicted a lose of 92 FPS for the loss of four Inches of barrel. I had Estimated an additional loss of 33 FPS for the Gas Operated Action, and the fact I never get the advertised factory velocity on any ammunition. My Log Book Drop Chart was based off my estimated velocity of 2950 fps. My Estimate was way closer than I would have bet on.

I am going to need to save up and get a Garman Xero C1 Chronograph. The new Garman has pretty much kicked all other chronographs to the curb. The only down side is the $600 Price Tag. The Garman is so good that I am sure I will buy one.

Hoping to get my hands on a couple box's of 62 ELD-VT ammunition to try next. I would settle for 88 ELD-M ammunition if I find it first. More to come if I come up with any 62's or 88 to test.

Bob R]]>
I have been waiting for a nice day to Chronograph for Two Weeks. My old school Chronograph with Sky Screens needs a nice day to work.
Old School was replaced with the latest and greatest today.
This morning I loaded up the 22 ARC and made a trip to Hunts Long Range Gun Shop near Summersville MO. Along with the 22 ARC AR15 I brought a box of Unobtanium. Hornady 22 ARC Black 75 gr ELD Match #81541 Ammunition.

The AR 15 used has a new 20" (H-Bar Profile ?) Saturn/Liberty Barrel.

Weather Conditions: Very High Humidity, Fog, Misting Rain, and High 30's.
Chronograph Used: Garman Xero C1
Temperature: 65 Degrees. (Firing was done from indoors)
Ammunition Temperature: 65 Degrees
Ammunition Tested: Hornady 22 ARC Black 75 Grain ELD-Match #81541
Hornady Advertised Velocity (24" Test Barrel): 3075 FPS

GARMAN Xero C1 Chronograph Results
Average Velocity (3 Shots): 2949 FPS
Standard Deviation: 4.8 FPS

Actual 20" Velocity was 126 FPS slower than the 24" Advertised Velocity.

Actual Velocity was Dead On with my Predicted Velocity based on the following.
The Shooters Note Book Velocity Corrector Estimated the Velocity for the 20" Barrel to be 2983 FPS. The Corrector predicted a lose of 92 FPS for the loss of four Inches of barrel. I had Estimated an additional loss of 33 FPS for the Gas Operated Action, and the fact I never get the advertised factory velocity on any ammunition. My Log Book Drop Chart was based off my estimated velocity of 2950 fps. My Estimate was way closer than I would have bet on.

I am going to need to save up and get a Garman Xero C1 Chronograph. The new Garman has pretty much kicked all other chronographs to the curb. The only down side is the $600 Price Tag. The Garman is so good that I am sure I will buy one.

Hoping to get my hands on a couple box's of 62 ELD-VT ammunition to try next. I would settle for 88 ELD-M ammunition if I find it first. More to come if I come up with any 62's or 88 to test.

Bob R]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26160 Fri, 29 Dec 2023 16:33:42 -0700 okiecat]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26160 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26107 Mon, 04 Dec 2023 17:40:58 -0700 SDguy]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26107 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26035 Wed, 08 Nov 2023 12:08:50 -0700 tlen]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26035 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26020 Thu, 02 Nov 2023 14:07:18 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26020 Quote:Once I had developed my fundamentals, the idea that I could achieve more, faster, became attractive. If I am trying to win and be competitive, why not use whatever I can as an advantage within the parameters allowed?

Just about two years ago, after I had waited for my buddies to shake things out, I jumped into the world of 6mm ARC. It gave me large-frame ballistics in a small frame. It’s a beautiful thing, in theory. That’s just not how it worked out for me. The 6mm ARC has had more failure points than any other platform I’ve ever used for any reason.

Q: Can you get into some of the issues you were experiencing?

I have had an astronomical amount of carbon buildup that has completely seized my gas tubes in as little as 500 rounds and ONLY as many as 1,000 or so. That has happened consistently every 500 to 1,000 rounds for 8,000 rounds like clockwork for the last two years.

The second issue is the bolt. Generally, the 6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel bolt and extractor, which is inherently frail. I’ve seen a number of, mine included, but other close competitors and friends of mine, snap extractors, crack and blow bolt lugs. Because of the case geometry, feeding of the system itself is not as ideal as other cases are. If I had to summarize, the level of maintenance I have had to put into this system to use it is exhausting. I have to track rounds on my gas tube, bolts, and extractors.

I’ve been seeking the answers to what’s been happening with my equipment and with my buddies’ equipment. There are easily 25,000 rounds between a handful of us on the clock, with 6mm ARC over the past two years. The only data point I can find is how we use our equipment versus others who are not competing with it. I see prolonged life and a lack of malfunctions for people who are hunters or recreational shooters, not “violently” using this platform.
6mm MAX Q&A

Specific problems he stated he and other competitors have experienced with 6mm ARC:

* “I have had an astronomical amount of carbon buildup that has completely seized my gas tubes in as little as 500 rounds and ONLY as many as 1,000 or so. That has happened consistently every 500 to 1,000 rounds for 8,000 rounds like clockwork for the last two years.”

* "Generally, the 6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel bolt and extractor, which is inherently frail. I’ve seen a number of, mine included, but other close competitors and friends of mine, snap extractors, crack and blow bolt lugs.”

* "Because of the case geometry, feeding of the system itself is not as ideal as other cases are.”


The part about gas tubes caught my attention, because I’ve been shooting 6.5 Grendel about 10-20x more than the average shooter since 2009, mostly during multi-day higher volume shoot schedules. I have never seen a clogged gas tube. I’ve been shooting the 12” Grendel suppressed with an adjustable gas system inside the bolt carrier (Bootleg), so that one would see a clogged tube if any of them would, and I’ve been shooting it as my primary Grendel for the past 6 years just to see how it would perform.

I know Grendel has a lot more bore volume than 6mm, so that could be a contributing factory with slower-burning powders and too-short of gas systems.

Has anyone else that shoots 6mm AR or 6mm ARC seen clogged gas tubes?

I would also be interested to see what bolts he’s been using, and what magazines. 6mm has different ogive and neck geometry that is of course smaller, so it might have more of a tendency to hit the edge of the feeding cone inside the breech after passing through the barrel extension teeth.]]> Quote:Once I had developed my fundamentals, the idea that I could achieve more, faster, became attractive. If I am trying to win and be competitive, why not use whatever I can as an advantage within the parameters allowed?

Just about two years ago, after I had waited for my buddies to shake things out, I jumped into the world of 6mm ARC. It gave me large-frame ballistics in a small frame. It’s a beautiful thing, in theory. That’s just not how it worked out for me. The 6mm ARC has had more failure points than any other platform I’ve ever used for any reason.

Q: Can you get into some of the issues you were experiencing?

I have had an astronomical amount of carbon buildup that has completely seized my gas tubes in as little as 500 rounds and ONLY as many as 1,000 or so. That has happened consistently every 500 to 1,000 rounds for 8,000 rounds like clockwork for the last two years.

The second issue is the bolt. Generally, the 6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel bolt and extractor, which is inherently frail. I’ve seen a number of, mine included, but other close competitors and friends of mine, snap extractors, crack and blow bolt lugs. Because of the case geometry, feeding of the system itself is not as ideal as other cases are. If I had to summarize, the level of maintenance I have had to put into this system to use it is exhausting. I have to track rounds on my gas tube, bolts, and extractors.

I’ve been seeking the answers to what’s been happening with my equipment and with my buddies’ equipment. There are easily 25,000 rounds between a handful of us on the clock, with 6mm ARC over the past two years. The only data point I can find is how we use our equipment versus others who are not competing with it. I see prolonged life and a lack of malfunctions for people who are hunters or recreational shooters, not “violently” using this platform.
6mm MAX Q&A

Specific problems he stated he and other competitors have experienced with 6mm ARC:

* “I have had an astronomical amount of carbon buildup that has completely seized my gas tubes in as little as 500 rounds and ONLY as many as 1,000 or so. That has happened consistently every 500 to 1,000 rounds for 8,000 rounds like clockwork for the last two years.”

* "Generally, the 6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel bolt and extractor, which is inherently frail. I’ve seen a number of, mine included, but other close competitors and friends of mine, snap extractors, crack and blow bolt lugs.”

* "Because of the case geometry, feeding of the system itself is not as ideal as other cases are.”


The part about gas tubes caught my attention, because I’ve been shooting 6.5 Grendel about 10-20x more than the average shooter since 2009, mostly during multi-day higher volume shoot schedules. I have never seen a clogged gas tube. I’ve been shooting the 12” Grendel suppressed with an adjustable gas system inside the bolt carrier (Bootleg), so that one would see a clogged tube if any of them would, and I’ve been shooting it as my primary Grendel for the past 6 years just to see how it would perform.

I know Grendel has a lot more bore volume than 6mm, so that could be a contributing factory with slower-burning powders and too-short of gas systems.

Has anyone else that shoots 6mm AR or 6mm ARC seen clogged gas tubes?

I would also be interested to see what bolts he’s been using, and what magazines. 6mm has different ogive and neck geometry that is of course smaller, so it might have more of a tendency to hit the edge of the feeding cone inside the breech after passing through the barrel extension teeth.]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26005 Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:00:47 -0600 flatland1]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26005
Fireforming in the Grinch chamber blows the shoulder .050" forward, and the body diameter at the shoulder is .005" larger than my 22 Grendel print shows, so the Grinch has a bit more case capacity. After necking Starline 6.5 Grendel down to 22 in two steps by changing neck bushings in a Redding 6.5 Grendel sizer, the safe thing to do if you want brass to last very long is to anneal before fireforming in the Grinch chamber. The first few cases I fireformed had neck splits, which was no surprise, since after the final neck down to 22, I had to expand the necks a few thou in order to be able to run them over the neck turning mandrel - it's no wonder they were brittle enough to split after all that forming & then expanding to turn necks. As hard as it can be to find Grendel brass, annealing is a small price to pay for normal brass life. It's getting a little late for me to resize my photo files, as they're all too large to fit. Might just reduce the quality & size parameters in the camera and shoot new photos later. Hopefully, we'll get some of the rain/snow mix they're forecasting for this weekend, and I'll have time to mess with it so I can show photos of the Grinch brass compared to 6.5 Grendel, 6 RAT, 22 Grendel, and finally, 22 Grinch.]]>
Fireforming in the Grinch chamber blows the shoulder .050" forward, and the body diameter at the shoulder is .005" larger than my 22 Grendel print shows, so the Grinch has a bit more case capacity. After necking Starline 6.5 Grendel down to 22 in two steps by changing neck bushings in a Redding 6.5 Grendel sizer, the safe thing to do if you want brass to last very long is to anneal before fireforming in the Grinch chamber. The first few cases I fireformed had neck splits, which was no surprise, since after the final neck down to 22, I had to expand the necks a few thou in order to be able to run them over the neck turning mandrel - it's no wonder they were brittle enough to split after all that forming & then expanding to turn necks. As hard as it can be to find Grendel brass, annealing is a small price to pay for normal brass life. It's getting a little late for me to resize my photo files, as they're all too large to fit. Might just reduce the quality & size parameters in the camera and shoot new photos later. Hopefully, we'll get some of the rain/snow mix they're forecasting for this weekend, and I'll have time to mess with it so I can show photos of the Grinch brass compared to 6.5 Grendel, 6 RAT, 22 Grendel, and finally, 22 Grinch.]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26004 Wed, 25 Oct 2023 19:22:17 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26004 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25758 Tue, 27 Jun 2023 17:31:25 -0600 VASCAR2]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25758

https://www.starlinebrass.com/6mm-arc-brass]]>

https://www.starlinebrass.com/6mm-arc-brass]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25745 Fri, 23 Jun 2023 18:43:03 -0600 rickt300]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25745 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25740 Tue, 20 Jun 2023 05:55:05 -0600 okiecat]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25740 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25682 Thu, 01 Jun 2023 17:14:01 -0600 SDguy]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25682
I'll weigh in in the coming weeks once I have acquired a bit of exposure.

Thank you all!]]>
I'll weigh in in the coming weeks once I have acquired a bit of exposure.

Thank you all!]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25628 Mon, 08 May 2023 17:07:29 -0600 SDguy]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25628
The future of the 6m ARC is looking increasingly promising from my perspective.]]>
The future of the 6m ARC is looking increasingly promising from my perspective.]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25623 Thu, 04 May 2023 20:19:20 -0600 rickt300]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25623 https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25500 Thu, 16 Mar 2023 18:22:08 -0600 Popeye212]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25500