https://65grendel.com/ Fri, 25 Sep 2026 01:47:06 +0000 MyBB https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26135 Sat, 16 Dec 2023 12:00:25 -0700 BluntForceTrauma]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26135
Yet another fat case, sleek bullet design concept pioneered by the 6.5 Grendel. The world is slowly coming around to the sound cartridge engineering we recognized way back in 2003. Matter of fact this is the time of year in 2003 when David Fortier released an article in Shotgun News about what was at first called .26 Grendel.

Anyway, you think Russian military will officially adopt Kalashnikov's new cartridge?

  Russian_6x41.jpg (Size: 304.33 KB / Downloads: 12) ]]>
Yet another fat case, sleek bullet design concept pioneered by the 6.5 Grendel. The world is slowly coming around to the sound cartridge engineering we recognized way back in 2003. Matter of fact this is the time of year in 2003 when David Fortier released an article in Shotgun News about what was at first called .26 Grendel.

Anyway, you think Russian military will officially adopt Kalashnikov's new cartridge?

  Russian_6x41.jpg (Size: 304.33 KB / Downloads: 12) ]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26047 Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:34:49 -0700 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=26047
I’m mainly talking about rifles, carbines, SMGs, pistols, machine-guns, and LMGs.

Being an avid historian of this subject, I’m drawing a blank for at least the last 5-6 decades, outside of one design that came from the private sector in the 1950s, which the Army Ordnance Board thoroughly rejected, and USAF adopted.

That was the AR-15.

Is there anything besides the AR-15?

M60 was trash, malf-o-matic in every unit I was in that had them.

Minimi is a Belgian LMG, submitted to the Army’s SAW trials.

MAG58/M240 is also Belgian, pre-dated the M60. We finally came around to it in the 1990s for infantry and adopted it to replace the M60.

M9 Beretta was Italian, not well-received.

The only other thing is just an evolution of the AR-15 family when we look at the M4 Carbine and its SOPMOD Block iterations, all of which were driven by relationships between SOF units and Knight’s Armament, Surefire, LMT, Daniel Defense, L3 Harris, Trijicon, and other ancillary systems manufacturers for optics, laser aiming modules, night vision devices, and weapon lights.

Can anybody think of anything?]]>
I’m mainly talking about rifles, carbines, SMGs, pistols, machine-guns, and LMGs.

Being an avid historian of this subject, I’m drawing a blank for at least the last 5-6 decades, outside of one design that came from the private sector in the 1950s, which the Army Ordnance Board thoroughly rejected, and USAF adopted.

That was the AR-15.

Is there anything besides the AR-15?

M60 was trash, malf-o-matic in every unit I was in that had them.

Minimi is a Belgian LMG, submitted to the Army’s SAW trials.

MAG58/M240 is also Belgian, pre-dated the M60. We finally came around to it in the 1990s for infantry and adopted it to replace the M60.

M9 Beretta was Italian, not well-received.

The only other thing is just an evolution of the AR-15 family when we look at the M4 Carbine and its SOPMOD Block iterations, all of which were driven by relationships between SOF units and Knight’s Armament, Surefire, LMT, Daniel Defense, L3 Harris, Trijicon, and other ancillary systems manufacturers for optics, laser aiming modules, night vision devices, and weapon lights.

Can anybody think of anything?]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25921 Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:42:54 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25921

E3 bolt
Intermediate-Length Gas System
Ambi controls



If they did this in the UK SOF contract 11.5” configuration, it would be the heat. (In Grendel of course, but I think a lot of people are on the 6mm ARC trend without having looked at the 2 side-by-side on the range.)]]>

E3 bolt
Intermediate-Length Gas System
Ambi controls



If they did this in the UK SOF contract 11.5” configuration, it would be the heat. (In Grendel of course, but I think a lot of people are on the 6mm ARC trend without having looked at the 2 side-by-side on the range.)]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25920 Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:15:49 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25920
Very interesting configuration with its barrel length, mini suppressor, new Vortex 1-10x LPVO, Aimpoint ACRO Mini RDS, FDE coating, Suppressor thermal insulator:







]]>
Very interesting configuration with its barrel length, mini suppressor, new Vortex 1-10x LPVO, Aimpoint ACRO Mini RDS, FDE coating, Suppressor thermal insulator:







]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25865 Sun, 20 Aug 2023 11:22:11 -0600 rickt300]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25865 https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/...art004.pdf]]> https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/...art004.pdf]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25507 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 15:25:28 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=25507 FN’s Individual Weapon System in .264 USA/LICC



Development of the ammunition and weapon has been an iterative process and three variants will be delivered: an 11.5” Close Quarters Battle carbine, a 14.5” Carbine, and a 18.5” ‘Recce’ (Designated Marksmanship Rifle). FN America say these variants weight 7 and 9 pounds, empty depending on configuration.

The 2019 BAA gives some further details on the IWS variants, and noted that it wanted operators to be able to change configurations by swapping out the upper receiver. Here are the weight requirements for the various configurations, according to the BAA:

CQB Carbine: weight 6.5-7lbs.

Carbine: weight 7-8lbs.

Recce Rifle: weight 8-9lbs.

The weapon is fully ambidextrous, has a self regulating gas block, a non-reciprocating charging handle, a two stage trigger, a self contained operating group, a monolithic upper, a full length top rail and an MLOK forend, a folding stock and several built-in recoil mitigation mechanisms. Details on these mechanisms haven’t been disclosed yet. Interestingly, throughout its description of the desired weapon characteristics the BAA uses the Colt Canada C8 SFW as a reference point for overall length, and felt recoil, also noting that “reliability, durability and safety of the LICC IWS shall be equal to or better than the Colt Canada C8 SFW with 14.5 inch barrel”.

]]> FN’s Individual Weapon System in .264 USA/LICC



Development of the ammunition and weapon has been an iterative process and three variants will be delivered: an 11.5” Close Quarters Battle carbine, a 14.5” Carbine, and a 18.5” ‘Recce’ (Designated Marksmanship Rifle). FN America say these variants weight 7 and 9 pounds, empty depending on configuration.

The 2019 BAA gives some further details on the IWS variants, and noted that it wanted operators to be able to change configurations by swapping out the upper receiver. Here are the weight requirements for the various configurations, according to the BAA:

CQB Carbine: weight 6.5-7lbs.

Carbine: weight 7-8lbs.

Recce Rifle: weight 8-9lbs.

The weapon is fully ambidextrous, has a self regulating gas block, a non-reciprocating charging handle, a two stage trigger, a self contained operating group, a monolithic upper, a full length top rail and an MLOK forend, a folding stock and several built-in recoil mitigation mechanisms. Details on these mechanisms haven’t been disclosed yet. Interestingly, throughout its description of the desired weapon characteristics the BAA uses the Colt Canada C8 SFW as a reference point for overall length, and felt recoil, also noting that “reliability, durability and safety of the LICC IWS shall be equal to or better than the Colt Canada C8 SFW with 14.5 inch barrel”.

]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=24592 Thu, 02 Jun 2022 03:12:06 -0600 Jimla]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=24592
Tested 4 Calibers: .30 .27 .24 and .21 and 3 powder loads 100%, 80%, 60% of a 30-06 cartridge.

The Charts shows the positive results moving from the 30-06 cartridge to .224 caliber for 400 yard combat with only 60% gun powder. Both better Hit Probability and Wounding Power.

The Charts shows the positive results moving from the 30-06 cartridge to .277 Fury at all combat ranges, they had to increase the pressure to get 30-06 performance out of a 308 size case with a short barrel. Both better Hit Probability and Wounding Power at all ranges.

A 6.5 Grendel like load was in the study but it did poorly relative to 30-06 cartridge. This may be why 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC ammo never was a final solution to the US military. The lowest line on both charts was like AK 47 like cartridge.

I marked the charts with load similar to .277 Fury, 270 Win, .25-06 Rem, 30-06, .224 Valkyrie, and 6.5 Grendel.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18875[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]18874[/ATTACH]

https://www.everydaymarksman.co/resource...try-rifle/

  Relative Hit Probability.jpg (Size: 74.56 KB / Downloads: 33)

  Relative Wounding Power.jpg (Size: 75.35 KB / Downloads: 34) ]]>
Tested 4 Calibers: .30 .27 .24 and .21 and 3 powder loads 100%, 80%, 60% of a 30-06 cartridge.

The Charts shows the positive results moving from the 30-06 cartridge to .224 caliber for 400 yard combat with only 60% gun powder. Both better Hit Probability and Wounding Power.

The Charts shows the positive results moving from the 30-06 cartridge to .277 Fury at all combat ranges, they had to increase the pressure to get 30-06 performance out of a 308 size case with a short barrel. Both better Hit Probability and Wounding Power at all ranges.

A 6.5 Grendel like load was in the study but it did poorly relative to 30-06 cartridge. This may be why 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC ammo never was a final solution to the US military. The lowest line on both charts was like AK 47 like cartridge.

I marked the charts with load similar to .277 Fury, 270 Win, .25-06 Rem, 30-06, .224 Valkyrie, and 6.5 Grendel.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18875[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]18874[/ATTACH]

https://www.everydaymarksman.co/resource...try-rifle/

  Relative Hit Probability.jpg (Size: 74.56 KB / Downloads: 33)

  Relative Wounding Power.jpg (Size: 75.35 KB / Downloads: 34) ]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=24476 Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:25:04 -0600 LRRPF52]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=24476
This award was made following a rigorous 27-month prototyping and evaluation effort that included numerous technical tests and Soldier touch points of three competing prototype systems.

The value of the initial delivery order on the contract is $20.4 million for weapons and ammunition that will undergo testing. The contract includes accessories, spares and contractor support. It also provides the other Department of Defense services and, potentially, Foreign Military Sales countries the opportunity to purchase the NGSW weapons.

The XM5 Rifle will replace the M4/M4A1 carbine within the close combat force, and the XM250 Automatic Rifle is the planned replacement for the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon

Both weapons provide significant capability improvements in accuracy, range and overall lethality. They are lightweight, fire more lethal ammunition, mitigate recoil, provide improved barrel performance, and include integrated muzzle sound and flash reduction.

Both weapons fire common 6.8 millimeter ammunition utilizing government provided projectiles and vendor-designed cartridges. The new ammunition includes multiple types of tactical and training rounds that increase accuracy and are more lethal against emerging threats than both the 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition.

The XM5 and XM250 will be paired with the XM157 Fire Control, a ruggedized advanced fire control system that increases accuracy and lethality for the close combat force. The XM157 integrates a number of advanced technologies, including a variable magnification optic (1X8), backup etched reticle, laser rangefinder, ballistic calculator, atmospheric sensor suite, compass, Intra-Soldier Wireless, visible and infrared aiming lasers, and a digital display overlay. It is produced by Sheltered Wings Inc. d/b/a Vortex Optics, Barneveld, Wisconsin.

https://www.army.mil/article/255827/army...n_contract





]]>
This award was made following a rigorous 27-month prototyping and evaluation effort that included numerous technical tests and Soldier touch points of three competing prototype systems.

The value of the initial delivery order on the contract is $20.4 million for weapons and ammunition that will undergo testing. The contract includes accessories, spares and contractor support. It also provides the other Department of Defense services and, potentially, Foreign Military Sales countries the opportunity to purchase the NGSW weapons.

The XM5 Rifle will replace the M4/M4A1 carbine within the close combat force, and the XM250 Automatic Rifle is the planned replacement for the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon

Both weapons provide significant capability improvements in accuracy, range and overall lethality. They are lightweight, fire more lethal ammunition, mitigate recoil, provide improved barrel performance, and include integrated muzzle sound and flash reduction.

Both weapons fire common 6.8 millimeter ammunition utilizing government provided projectiles and vendor-designed cartridges. The new ammunition includes multiple types of tactical and training rounds that increase accuracy and are more lethal against emerging threats than both the 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition.

The XM5 and XM250 will be paired with the XM157 Fire Control, a ruggedized advanced fire control system that increases accuracy and lethality for the close combat force. The XM157 integrates a number of advanced technologies, including a variable magnification optic (1X8), backup etched reticle, laser rangefinder, ballistic calculator, atmospheric sensor suite, compass, Intra-Soldier Wireless, visible and infrared aiming lasers, and a digital display overlay. It is produced by Sheltered Wings Inc. d/b/a Vortex Optics, Barneveld, Wisconsin.

https://www.army.mil/article/255827/army...n_contract





]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=24383 Thu, 17 Mar 2022 14:19:38 -0600 grayfox]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=24383 “Disruptive Innovation describes a process by which a product or service initially takes root in simple applications at the bottom of a market—typically by being less expensive and more accessible—and then relentlessly moves upmarket, eventually displacing established competitors.” – Clayton Christianson

In the military arena, maybe the disruption is not so much lower cost as it is more "effective" while still being affordable. …Where is my thought line going?

Maybe this Ngsw weapon (upon which I am neutral by the way) is the beginning of a disruptive innovation, but maybe also not in the original construction/setup as being just carried by the individual soldier...

Army & Industry Teams Massively Modernize the Next-Generation Squad Weapon (NGSW) - Warrior Maven: Center for Military Modernization

This website Warrior maven has a couple of articles on the Ngsw, most of which is not news to the forum here. But when it mentioned potential uses by Airborne, Special Ops, groups like that, kind of started me thinking. What if the Ngsw-like weapon is combined with some other new technology, the combo of which might advance small-group operation and effectiveness? Force-multiplication strategy where a small 4-6 man squad could do damage like a platoon o larger? Such has been woven into lots of American military thinking IMO, we haven't liked the idea of swarming hordes charging right up to an enemy for bulk man to man combat (although we no doubt train to defend against this). It's not our offensive tactic of choice.

No, small group warfare enhanced by massive “fire” ability… close air support, artillery, area bombs… So this thread is to kick off some brain storming on what combinations of new technology would be implementable to enhance or increase the fire capability of the (if I have the term correct) squad or say 4-8 man team. I will start with an Ngsw combo but others might have some ideas. “Disruptive Innovation” for the small military team.

I see the potential of putting 1 or maybe 2 Ngsw weapons onto a squad-accompanying “unmanned ATV”. Granted it might not be able to go on every mission (like on swampy ground) but in many cases it could be a small unmannd pack mule, carrying the 2 Ngsw’s and ammo loadouts (thus avoiding the “too heavy to carry” problem). In addition to on-mule remote ops they can be offloaded and carried or fired, if desired, or if the little mule breaks down or something else. But it could be remotely positioned, operated and fired if desired, even staged a little off to the side of the group to set up an immediate “cross-fire” trap for oncoming troops. Along with that would be (I propose) an on-board anti-tank weapon like the javelin or maybe one of those man-portable kamikaze drones. Useful little U-atv.

Remember the purpose of a brainstorming session is to raise up some new ideas or applications, not just to shoot down somebody else’s wacky idea. So this might be wacky but this new Ngsw (upon which, remember, I am neutral) might combine with something else to make a truly disruptive innovation. Doesn’t necessarily have to “cost less” (as in the business world) but does have to be an affordable force-multiplier for a small team, for some missions.
What do y’all think?]]> “Disruptive Innovation describes a process by which a product or service initially takes root in simple applications at the bottom of a market—typically by being less expensive and more accessible—and then relentlessly moves upmarket, eventually displacing established competitors.” – Clayton Christianson

In the military arena, maybe the disruption is not so much lower cost as it is more "effective" while still being affordable. …Where is my thought line going?

Maybe this Ngsw weapon (upon which I am neutral by the way) is the beginning of a disruptive innovation, but maybe also not in the original construction/setup as being just carried by the individual soldier...

Army & Industry Teams Massively Modernize the Next-Generation Squad Weapon (NGSW) - Warrior Maven: Center for Military Modernization

This website Warrior maven has a couple of articles on the Ngsw, most of which is not news to the forum here. But when it mentioned potential uses by Airborne, Special Ops, groups like that, kind of started me thinking. What if the Ngsw-like weapon is combined with some other new technology, the combo of which might advance small-group operation and effectiveness? Force-multiplication strategy where a small 4-6 man squad could do damage like a platoon o larger? Such has been woven into lots of American military thinking IMO, we haven't liked the idea of swarming hordes charging right up to an enemy for bulk man to man combat (although we no doubt train to defend against this). It's not our offensive tactic of choice.

No, small group warfare enhanced by massive “fire” ability… close air support, artillery, area bombs… So this thread is to kick off some brain storming on what combinations of new technology would be implementable to enhance or increase the fire capability of the (if I have the term correct) squad or say 4-8 man team. I will start with an Ngsw combo but others might have some ideas. “Disruptive Innovation” for the small military team.

I see the potential of putting 1 or maybe 2 Ngsw weapons onto a squad-accompanying “unmanned ATV”. Granted it might not be able to go on every mission (like on swampy ground) but in many cases it could be a small unmannd pack mule, carrying the 2 Ngsw’s and ammo loadouts (thus avoiding the “too heavy to carry” problem). In addition to on-mule remote ops they can be offloaded and carried or fired, if desired, or if the little mule breaks down or something else. But it could be remotely positioned, operated and fired if desired, even staged a little off to the side of the group to set up an immediate “cross-fire” trap for oncoming troops. Along with that would be (I propose) an on-board anti-tank weapon like the javelin or maybe one of those man-portable kamikaze drones. Useful little U-atv.

Remember the purpose of a brainstorming session is to raise up some new ideas or applications, not just to shoot down somebody else’s wacky idea. So this might be wacky but this new Ngsw (upon which, remember, I am neutral) might combine with something else to make a truly disruptive innovation. Doesn’t necessarily have to “cost less” (as in the business world) but does have to be an affordable force-multiplier for a small team, for some missions.
What do y’all think?]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=23945 Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:01:44 -0700 montana]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=23945 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMcZ8thlikY&t=4s]]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMcZ8thlikY&t=4s]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=23506 Sun, 04 Jul 2021 22:03:58 -0600 Battalion13]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=23506 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg]]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=23505 Sun, 04 Jul 2021 22:01:16 -0600 Battalion13]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=23505 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL1wF-nCGc4]]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL1wF-nCGc4]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=23210 Tue, 20 Apr 2021 00:32:29 -0600 Battalion13]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=23210 The SIG LMG-68 Light Machine Gun: Next Gen Firepower]]> The SIG LMG-68 Light Machine Gun: Next Gen Firepower]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=22828 Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:20:24 -0700 Battalion13]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=22828 Linked to TFB site]]> Linked to TFB site]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=22800 Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:51:21 -0700 Battalion13]]> https://65grendel.com/showthread.php?tid=22800 TFB site]]> TFB site]]>