Ulfberht rifle with Bill Alexander and Kevin Collins.

[Trooper]

Bill Alexander and Kevin Collins at the NRA national convention with the Ulfberht rifle
Kevin is the designer of the rifle.


[attachment=3442]

[stanc]

Pretty cool.

[video=youtube;p8OQfaAMkBQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8OQfaAMkBQ[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8OQfaAMkBQ


Make it in .338 Norma Magnum (right, below) and it'd be a good companion for the GD LWMMG.

[bwaites]

Pretty cool. . . . Make it in .338 Norma Magnum (right, below) and it'd be a good companion for the GD LWMMG.

He wanted to, and still might, but the spec for Norma Magnum is transient. One day its this, another day its different.

[Tony Williams]

He wanted to, and still might, but the spec for Norma Magnum is transient. One day its this, another day its different.

It will firm up pretty quickly as soon as any military adopts the LWMMG . I see that there's a presentation on it at NDIA in Phoenix in a couple of weeks, but I'm not going to this one.

[Trooper]

He wanted to, and still might, but the spec for Norma Magnum is transient. One day its this, another day its different.

standardize on at least 8.59x65 for a start.

[Trooper]

It will firm up pretty quickly as soon as any military adopts the LWMMG . I see that there's a presentation on it at NDIA in Phoenix in a couple of weeks, but I'm not going to this one.

Bill made a point that as an engineer he needs a defined problem. What is the goal and he will design for it. Most of the military wants everything in a round. Sort of what they did for the F35

[Longshot_34]

If I were a wealthy man...

[stanc]

He wanted to, and still might, but the spec for Norma Magnum is transient. One day its this, another day its different.

I didn't know that. I just assumed that, with Norma producing ammo, there'd be a firm spec. Is .338 NM not a SAAMI round?

[BluntForceTrauma]

I've heard great things about Kevin Collins. Bill says he's very talented designer and expects lots of great things from him.

Given that the case head size is the same as 338LM (0.588), Bill planned from the beginning that the Ulfbehrt could use 338NM, if requested.

John

[bwaites]

I didn't know that. I just assumed that, with Norma producing ammo, there'd be a firm spec. Is .338 NM not a SAAMI round?

No, its not. Its not even in "Pending" status. 338 Lapua is "Pending".

Both are CIP, but evidently the actual chamber dimensions have floated around a little, even while the cartridge has been fixed. Interestingly, both .338 Lapua and .338 NM have the same OAL according to CIP guidelines, completely negating the whole intended purpose of the Norma, which was to allow a shorter action.

[stanc]

Given that the case head size is the same as 338LM (0.588), Bill planned from the beginning that the Ulfbehrt could use 338NM, if requested.

I'm sure it could. After all, both rounds have about the same OAL, too. It's just that the Norma round is the .338 equivalent of 6.5 Grendel, having a relatively short, fat case and therefore able to use bullets with longer ogives than the .338 Lapua.

[Tony Williams]

Interestingly, both .338 Lapua and .338 NM have the same OAL according to CIP guidelines, completely negating the whole intended purpose of the Norma, which was to allow a shorter action.

That's not what I was told when discussing the ammo with its originator, who was present when the LWMMG was unveiled at NDIA a couple of years ago. As Stan says, it was intended to allow the use of longer-ogive bullets within the same overall length as the .338LM.

[Tony Williams]

Stan, have you got any data on those bullets? Who makes them, weight, BC?

[stanc]

Stan, have you got any data on those bullets? Who makes them, weight, BC?

Tony, the picture is in the following post, which may or may not have that info. (Can you read Chinese? )

http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=redire...d=36864517

[BluntForceTrauma]

The shorter Lapua Magnum bullets in the photo look like they have a very small opening at the bottom, sort of like a little crater, which makes me think they're Lapua's "Lock-Base" design, which would make them 250gr FMJs.

John

[Tony Williams]

Tony, the picture is in the following post, which may or may not have that info. (Can you read Chinese? )

Not so's you'd notice....:roll eyes:

[stanc]

The shorter Lapua Magnum bullets in the photo look like they have a very small opening at the bottom, sort of like a little crater, which makes me think they're Lapua's "Lock-Base" design, which would make them 250gr FMJs.

Very observant, John. I didn't even notice that.

http://www.uslapua.com/ProductDetails.as...de=4PL8012

[Adam Lilja]

I think the name Ulfberht was taken from a Scandinavian sword maker (15th Century?) who's sword alloys and craftsmanship were superior to any other metal that civilization was capable of making in that era. Hope it lives up to the name!

[NugginFutz]

I think the name Ulfberht was taken from a Scandinavian sword maker (15th Century?) who's sword alloys and craftsmanship were superior to any other metal that civilization was capable of making in that era. Hope it lives up to the name!

According to Wikipedia:

"Ulfberht is a name given to unique Viking swords used in Scandinavia in the 1000s. The unique, high-quality steel they incorporated remained unparalleled until the Industrial Revolution. 171 such swords have been found so far, but only a few of these have been proven to be authentic Ulfberht swords. The earliest Ulfberhts date from circa 850."

[nincomp]

Both are CIP, but evidently the actual chamber dimensions have floated around a little, even while the cartridge has been fixed. Interestingly, both .338 Lapua and .338 NM have the same OAL according to CIP guidelines, completely negating the whole intended purpose of the Norma, which was to allow a shorter action.

I can understand why Bill Alexander is wary of the .338 Norma Magnum. There are effectively two chamberings with which I am familiar.
When the .338 NM is loaded with the same bullet as the .338 Lapua Mag, the OAL of the NM can be less. When both cartridges are loaded with the popular 300 gr Sierra Matchking, in particular, the action for the .338 NM could be shorter. This was a bigger deal several years ago when there were fewer rifle actions that could accomodate the longer .338 Lapua.

The last time I looked, I did not see any common .338 bullets with a longer ogive than the 300gr Sierra Matchking used by the .338 Lapua, so the NM and the LM were evenly matched despite the OAL difference.

The "long" version of the .338 Norma Magnum, however, is a different animal. This time, it is loaded to the same OAL as the .338 Lapua Mag. The longer chamber can be used with a longer-ogive, higher BC bullet or a bullet with a greater volume for increased payload (tracer material, incendiary chemicals, or high explosives, etc). This is largely why General Dynamics chose the NM for its machine gun. The potential payload increase can be seen in the photo on the second post in this thread.