Ammo/Mag Issue

[scout_vet]

I am building a 6.5 Grendel AR. I bought some 24 round e-lander mags as searches in this forum showed they were among the better choices. I have also purchased some wolf steel cased ammo. I have not spent the money (yet) to get any brass cased but I will before hunting season. I wanted to break in the springs on the mags so I filled them up and let them sit for a week or so. When I sat down to unload them it was extremely difficult to remove the rounds. It did not get easier as I removed rounds from the mag. This is not my first AR and I served in the army, so I know the feeling of the rounds sliding out of a mag both steel mags (like I have) or polymer mags. It was so tough I am worried that when I go to shoot my rifle the bolt will not have enough energy to pull a round out of the mag. Is the tightness a symptom of the steel rubbing against itself or something else?

[outbreaker]

I am building a 6.5 Grendel AR. I bought some 24 round e-lander mags as searches in this forum showed they were among the better choices. I have also purchased some wolf steel cased ammo. I have not spent the money (yet) to get any brass cased but I will before hunting season. I wanted to break in the springs on the mags so I filled them up and let them sit for a week or so. When I sat down to unload them it was extremely difficult to remove the rounds. It did not get easier as I removed rounds from the mag. This is not my first AR and I served in the army, so I know the feeling of the rounds sliding out of a mag both steel mags (like I have) or polymer mags. It was so tough I am worried that when I go to shoot my rifle the bolt will not have enough energy to pull a round out of the mag. [COLOR="#FF0000"]Is the tightness a symptom of the steel rubbing against itself or something else?

[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#FF0000"][COLOR="#000000"]F = K (x – xo)
F= force of spring
K= Spring Constant (strength of spring)
x-xo= displacement of the spring (how far it is compressed)

A fully loaded magazine is going to have more force on the spring which will make the rounds harder to load and unload.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[myrifle]

OP best thing you can do is trash can those elander mags and pick up some cpd/duramags.

For the life of me I cant understand how folks can say elander grendel mags are good mags. Every single on of them I have tried has been pure garbage until I cut the mag springs down and let the mag bodys go for a 24 hour spin in my brass tumbler plus had a bunch if them I had too go in and grind out huge welds so the follower would not get hung up.

I know it sucks to spend more money but trust me ditch the elander mags and get some cpd/duramags.

[tlen]

17 round Alexander Arms E-Lander Mags work for me as they are shorter and allow shooting from a rest. Just try your 25 round mags at the range before you do anything.

[lazyengineer]

New E-landers loaded to full may jam. From experience, you have to smooth the inside of the lips by just cycling rounds through the mags to wear them a bit more smooth. Then they will run well.

And yes, the tension is considerably higher than 5.56 mags getting them to feed out. I wouldn't advise some ultralight buffer spring. Again, as the rifle breaks in and has decreased drag with the BCG/reciever fit as it wears in, that too is only good.

[VASCAR2]

I have about 16 E-Lander 6.5 Grendel mags and they all function reliably. They are a pain when new but after they are worn in mine do work. The easiest way I found to unload a new E-Lander mag is to use the thin plastic edge on a letter opener to push down on the next to top cartridge. This relieves the pressure on the top cartridge where you can push it out. I use a wooden ruler or yard stick to push down on the follower cycling the springs on new mags. Quickly cycling the springs multiple times quickens the wear in process.

When I get new E-Lander mags I load them to capacity and let them set loaded till I shoot them empty. I loaded them back up and leave them loaded till I shoot them empty next time I shoot a 6.5 Grendel.

Once worn in my E-Lander mags are as easy to use as my other mags. The C Products Defense Duramag twenty round 6.5 Grendel mags are very good mags. I bought two of the twenty round Duramags to test. I have about thirty 6.5 Grendel mags for the AR-15. The mags I use most are the fifteen round ASC, seventeen round E-Lander and twenty round Duramags.

I did fix one twenty four round E-Lander mag which had rough welds on the spine. The rough welds caused drag on the follower leading to failure to feed. I used a file to smooth out the welds and the mag has functioned normally since. The E-Lander mags are heavy gauge steel so they don’t permit a long cartridge overall length. The heavy gauge steel bodies resist damage.

To my recollection I have two ten round E-Landers, eleven seventeen round and three twenty four round E-Lander 6.5 Grendel mags.

[scout_vet]

[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#FF0000"][COLOR="#000000"]F = K (x – xo)
F= force of spring
K= Spring Constant (strength of spring)
x-xo= displacement of the spring (how far it is compressed)

A fully loaded magazine is going to have more force on the spring which will make the rounds harder to load and unload.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

But the force doesn't go down with fewer rounds in the mag.

[scout_vet]

Overall, some good info from everyone. Thank you. It seems a combo of the feed lips and spring tension. Ill load them up again and let them sit more. I do not believe I have an ultra-light buffer spring. I just bought a simple rifle length buffer system. Guess time will tell. When I shoot them, I will load them down to 20 rounds. But I will store them at 24 rounds. I bought an adjustable gas system, so I did not purchase a heavy buffer.

[scout_vet]

Also, while new mags might solve a lot of this, I live in WA state. Until the new supreme court ruling fully trickles down to mag capacity bans I'm stuck.

[grendelnubi]

If it were me and I thought my mags had excessive spring tension I would trim coils. If you take too many out you can add more spring tension back in with either a spacer at the bottom of the inside of mag or fine tune by bending the last coil to increase or decrease tension. I have removed as many as 2 coils and still had adequate tension.

[Bonas]

CPD aka C-Products Defense mags are far superior to E-Landers. E-Landers are unnecessarily hard to unload, and they'll stay that way, in my experience. Just buy some CPDs. You won't regret it.

[CJW]

I have 8 E-Lander mags for my Grendel, not had the first problem with them.

[outbreaker]

But the force doesn't go down with fewer rounds in the mag.

Yes, it does, the compression distance is shorter so the force goes down. You are thinking of the spring constant, but I only teach physics and am probably wrong.

[Growler]

Spring force is only part of the issue. The real issue is friction. While that is a function of normal force, the force model is oversimplifed.

Are your Wolf rounds lacquer coated? Are there any sharp edges on your feed lips? If the answer to both is yes, they can sure bind up easily.

Either way, some fine grit sanding of those edges may be more effective than cutting coils.

Several users here have reported the need to make small adjustment to the feed lips. This just seems like a QC problem, but one that can be fixed. Look carefully at round case/feed lip contact. Do you see any points of binding or unusual scratches? Disassembling the mags and inspecting/ polishing them will probably fix your issues.

Good luck!

[VASCAR2]

Quality control is the major factor contributing frustration over magazine reliability. All brands of 6.5 Grendel mags have suffered from poor quality control. I think some functioning issues are blamed on 6.5 Grendel mags when in actuality there is a combination of issue which can contribute to malfunctions.

If an AR-15 is not properly gassed the cycle speed of the bolt can very. If the bolt cycles to fast the spring in the mag can’t raise the next cartridge fast enough. Not enough gas might inhibit the bolt from moving rearward enough to cycle the top cartridge or not have enough momentum to completely chamber the cartridge. The larger diameter 6.5 Grendel cartridges need larger feed ramps than a typical 5.56/223. Most experienced 6.5 Grendel users have seen the marks on brass from cartridges being scratched from the barrel extension lugs. As the rifle are used these sharp edges seem to wear down. If the feed ramps in the barrel extension are not done right this can contribute to added drag which only adds to the possibility of a malfunction.

The 5.56/223 AR-15 has a larger knowledge base with known specifications mainly from military usage. When you step away from 5.56/223 to other cartridges there can be significant variations in use by manufacturers. Throw in poor quality control or wrong size gas ports reliability can suffer. There are manufacturers who don’t use SAAMI spec chambers so these companies are free to use whatever design specifications they choose.

Using a suppressor can contribute to the need to tweak a AR-15 for reliable functioning. Some times it is easy to blame magazines for a failure when ammunition might be a contributing factor (especially reloads). Add in that many AR-15’s are assembled by people with a wide variety of components with different levels of experience.

Add in all completely new untried components and if there is a failure to feed the first thing to blame is the junk new magazine. With use magazine feed lips seem to smooth out. With use many magazine seem to become more reliable unless they become filthy.

Another thing that I don’t completely understand is why people want to run a brand new semi auto bone dry with no lube. I had a farmer friend who was having functioning issues with a new pistol. I had the exact same pistol and had been around several others and all were reliable. I asked him if I could see his pistol. It was bone dry and dirty. I cleaned the pistol and lubed it up. He was fairly inexperienced at shooting handguns so I helped him a little. After I cleaned and lubed the pistol and ensured he was using a proper grip his pistol functioned 100%.

The person asked me if the gun shouldn’t be able to work dirty. I said most new mechanical devices work better with a little lubrication. I told the farmer his expertise were in tractors and he wouldn’t run his tractors without oil or lube. After being in LE and relying on and using firearms I kept my semi auto pistols cleaned and lubed.