Magnification range for a general purpose optic on 18" upper

[maximus83]

I have a PF 18" upper used mostly for target shooting (mostly on a 100-600y range, occasional access to 1000y), or for hunting.

Looking for an optic with a good magnification range that will....

• Not get TOO long/bulky for the compact size of the rifle (let's say 13" max length), and not too heavy for carrying
  
• Still give enough magnification to stretch the legs of the PF and take advantage of its accuracy potential beyond 300y.
  

What's the best magnification range for that? I've thinking 3 possibilities:
* 2.5-10x on the low end (I use 1-6x on my 5.56 AR's, but that doesn't seem like enough scope here)
* Maybe the 3-15x or 3-18x optics in the middle
* Something like 4-20x (or with new 8x optics like the NF NX8, 2.5-20x) at the high end.

They all have their trade-offs, obviously. I'm inclined to go with something in the 2 or 2.5-10x range, keep it light and handy, and not overload the rifle with a big bulky optic. Especially interested in the new Vortex Razor 1-10x (if you could actually find one in stock). But then I see other folks running up to 18x or 20x top end scopes on Grendels, with the rationale it helps with the longer range target shooting. Seems like my usage will be concentrated around shorter ranges, and some degree of carry/hunting, so that usage should drive the selection of a more handy optic.

Thoughts on best magnification range? What have been your experiences of the trade-offs?

[Bigs28]

I use a march 1-10x24 and have shot it out to 500np. Im not shooting groups, just banging steel. Nightforce has some 2-10 stuff to. If your wanting to shoot groups then you might want to go up some.

[Klem]

A March 3-24*50 is a good Grendel all-rounder for its magnification range and compact size and weight. I don't think 2.5-10 will cut it for anything other than steel at 600yds and definitely not 1,000. That said, the NF 2.5-10*42 is a great compact scope for the AR. Not too big for a 223 or Grendel at hunting ranges but if you shoot groups at 600yds frequently you will want more top end.

As for the occasional 1,000yds the 3-24 March will work. But you can also swap it out for the biggest, highest magnification scope you can find and clamp it on just for that day.

[maximus83]

Fair enough, on the need for the larger optic.

I like the point about perhaps running the larger optic for the common case (the range), then swap it out for a lighter optic, for hunting. I already run my AR optics in one-piece mounts, so it's easy to swap them between rifles and re-zero for the different caliber.

[grayfox]

My own opinion, the magnification amount depends on your eyes, I think that is why you see so much variation. For my old eyes, I would stick to like what Klem wrote, and would be using something top end of 16x min, to around 20. I have a viper 16x I have taken to 600 with my creed and can do 600 all day, for 1000 it was ok but a little under mag, for me. I have some top out at 18x and for the 1000 that’s where I would start. But each shooter has to look thru the scope at that distance and let your peepers tell you. Good glass, and a good steady rest.

[maximus83]

You guys have convinced me I need a little more scope. I'm looking at options that top out at 20x or 24x.

Already have a NF NX8 2.5-20x50, a great little scope. A little heavier than I had planned, at about 28oz, but man it has great glass. I could potentially move that one to the Grendel in a QD mount, and potentially get a larger mag scope (say, 5-25x) for my 6.5 CM bolt gun.

[drewthebrave]

For my 18" Grendel, I'm really happy with the 3-15x SWFA for a relatively handy (< 9 lb) do-all rifle. I used a 3-9x for a bit, but having the 15x mag on the top end really was helpful when shooting at 600+. I'm considering a LPVO or 2-10x for a lightweight 12" Grendel build I'm brainstorming... For your use, a 2-10x would work for hunting, but you might be wishing for a little more mag for target shooting at 600+ .

That NF 2.5-20 seems like it would be dang near perfect for what an 18" Grendel is capable of!

[maximus83]

Yeah Drew I've seen that 3-15x SWFA scope, they produce some very cost-effective quality glass that is made in Japan. How do you like that scope, esp the reticle and glass, and using it at 15x?

[Bigs28]

My buddy i shoot with uses the eotech vudu and loves it.

[drewthebrave]

I have the discontinued SFP model with the diamond reticle, which is great for my uses: mostly target shooting, and future plans to hunt (hog, deer, coyote). I was initially looking for the FFP version, but I found a used SFP at a price that was too good to pass up. The glass is good for the money, it tracks true, and I have 100% confidence in the scope's durability. I feel like it's an easy recommendation for a starter/midrange scope, because you get something that just plain works, and you're not paying for a bunch of extra features that don't really matter for most practical shooting.

If you can find them used under $600 (samplelist.com had tons, pre-COVID), they're great deals. At $700 for a new one, you might want to consider stepping up to the $800+ range with a Burris XTR 2, Viper PST G2, Athlon Ares BTR/ETR, or Meopta Optika6 for some more modern features like illumination, zero stops, tree reticles, etc. (if that's important to you).

For what it's worth, I appreciate the simplicity of the SWFA reticles and don't feel limited in any way by the lack of those "modern" features. If a utilitarian optic suits you, you'll be pretty happy with an SWFA.

[diggler1833]

I run an older Busnell Elite Tactical 3-12 FFP on one of my 18" 5.56 rifles, and it works great. I've only killed a few coyotes with it, but I rarely found myself in a situation where I was fighting with the scope to get a shot off.

My 18" 5.56 ranch rifle wears a Burris XTR II in 1-8, and I really like that setup. It isn't high-end glass, but it hasn't failed me yet either. I've killed five daylight hogs and a coyote with it this summer. I really reccomend the 1-6, or 1-8 optics on a working rifle.

[Wethepeople]

I have the PST G2 2x10*32 on a Grendel 18" and a .223 18" DMR. My eyes are old so I have days where my vision is pretty good, others days it's pretty blurred. Shooting steel @ 1000 hasn't been problematic for me thus far. On my crappy days I wear my prescription glasses and just dial down the diopter. I'd say that 90% of the time I'm just using shooting glasses.

[Grendelshooter]

Thread resurrection!
Same question as OP but for a 16” gun. Velocity with Hornady black 123eldm is around 2400fps. According to ballistics app that gives me around 950 yards give or take.
Options are a 1-6x, 2.5-10x, 3-15x. Burris, Nightforce, and SWFA respectively.
I’ll have an RMR on a 45 degree mount for the 2-10 or 3-15.
Y’all think 3-15 would be too much for a knock around truck gun/zombie apocalypse rifle? Looking to best match scope to rifle capabilities I guess.

[VASCAR2]

I think 3-15 scope is great for a 16” 6.5 Grendel. I have a 4-12x42 on my 16” and a 4-16x42 on my 18” 6.5 Grendel. I use a 6.5-20x50 on my 20” Shilen and I have 20 MOA one piece mounts on all three. On my 16” 6.5 Grendel with 3-9x40 (wish I had more magnification) I ran out of elevation around 800 yards at 450’ ASL. If you think you might shoot at longer range the 20 MOA mounts help to where your not dialing to the end of your scope’s elevation travel. The 20 MOA mounts usually cost the same as 0 cant mounts so I see no downside to using the 20 MOA mount.

[PVBoom]

3x15 was my first thought for versatility and some service at longer ranges as well.

[LRRPF52]

On 18”, I’ve rarely shot anything with more than 10x on it.

Compact glass options with high resolution and wide magnification range is much more popular and available now.

The Razor 1-10x24 is much more compact than I thought, with different reticle options.

I love the compactness of the NF NX8 1-8x24 and its daylight bright illumination for the short guns.

I think the NX8 is ideal for the 16” and shorter blasters, it’s so small.



For target work, you can go with something with more magnification as there’s no need for 1x on the bottom end.

Avoid all the optics that aren’t sealed well for semi-auto abuse. The market is full of cheap scopes with enticing features that will simply break on you.

Safe bet is to stick with NF and Vortex (higher end lines).

I’ll take durability/reliability and glass quality over top-end magnification.

My eyes have shat the bed over the past few years, so I can no longer read the Willie Wonka fine print....

[centerfire]

I had first round hits on IPSC sized targets at 1400yd and 1200yd, with angle and wind, last weekend and my scope never went over 12X. In four days of shooting from 100 to 1500 yards I only used magnification over 12X to check zero at 100 yards. I shot a similar course last year at the same place and only used 10X for the Grendel. I also used a 3X range finder to spot with from my tripod so I wouldn't have to carry a spotter.

I have 30X scopes and I only ever use them turned up to shoot groups on paper during load development.

[bamban]

March came up with a compact 1.5x15x42. It should be perfect all around mid range optics. May need a 20 MOA mount for long range application

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/tra...b9e62e46cc

If 1-10 is plenty for your needs, this new innovative dual reticle is ingenious. One reticle holds constant size illuminated dot in the 2nd focal plane. Another reticle in the 1st focal plane adjust the ranging reticle with power setting. The 2 reticles are superimposed on each other.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/tra...23e8a57f7b

[Klem]

March came up with a compact 1.5x15x42. It should be perfect all around mid range optics. May need a 20 MOA mount for long range application

Isn't that an interesting innovation.

That scope is slightly shorter than the March 2.5-25x42 but pretty much the same weight. It only comes in MOA turrets. They will probably include Mils like they have in the past when demand from the dealers builds up. I'm thinking you might not notice the difference between 1.5 and 2.5 unless the target is really close, like inside a building. But the dual reticle sure is interesting. What do you think?

[bamban]

Isn't that an interesting innovation.

That scope is slightly shorter than the March 2.5-25x42 but pretty much the same weight. It only comes in MOA turrets. They will probably include Mils like they have in the past when demand from the dealers builds up. I'm thinking you might not notice the difference between 1.5 and 2.5 unless the target is really close, like inside a building. But the dual reticle sure is interesting. What do you think?

There is a mil version

D15V42IML | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation
https://marchscopes.com/scopes/d15v42iml/

The dual reticle will be nice one, ranging capability with a fix red dot. That shorty platform in the 1-8 first focal plane only, was adapted by the Japanese military as their standard optics. I won't be surprised if they change to that new 1-10 dual plane. I have the 2.5x10 Vortex PST on my suppressed MK12 SPR, I may spring for this new 1-10 or the 1.5x15 for it, and move the PST to the Grendel. The 5.5x22x56 NXS on it is just too dang heavy. Have to admit that 1-10 is kind of cute.