BCA vs Group Monster Barrel - Continued

[Hollis]

Well, I decided to sell one of my Grendels. It was a tough decision, but I sold the one that has the stainless steel barrel from BCA. It hurt to let it go, especially since it was my best shooter, but it leaves me with the challenge to work with my upper with the Monster barrel to shoot consistent sub MOA. I also decided to try to build other Grendel uppers and sell them once I get them accurized, broken-in and shooting really well. I figure it can be a win-win. I like building and tinkering with things, I enjoy shooting the Grendel, and I like the challenge of getting them to shoot really well. I can find good deals, put together nice Grendel uppers, I can go through the trouble of breaking them in (which is expensive when you add up the ammo costs) and fine tuning them, and then I can sell them to those who just want a great shooting Grendel at an affordable price. We'll see how that goes, but that's the plan for now.

I built another Grendel with 20" Nitride fluted barrel (pic to come soon). I'm putting it through the process and it is coming along fine. Had some sub MOA groups, but still need to do some more work to get consistently tight groups.

With my stainless steel BCA upper gone, I put more rounds through my upper with the Monster barrel. It is shooting pretty consistent now, although not yet shooting as tight of groups as my other, but I think I can get it there.



I shot the 0.6 group first and was in a bit of a rush on the other groups. I was just seeing if I could consistently hit close to bullseye on my 4" targets at 100 yards. I was successful with that. Next time I go out, I'll work on tightening up the groups. But, honestly, my goal isn't to shoot tiny groups at 100 yards, but to hit exactly where I am aiming at various distances. But I do like to "prove" the equipment (and my abilities with it) first, then take it out to longer distances.

But back to the comparison of the Monster group barrel to the BCA barrel - as of now, the BCA barrel is the winner from my very small sample group with multiple variables involved. But I'm not counting the Monster barrel out just yet. We'll see!

[guitarhillbilly]

There are a lot of BCA haters on this forum. I own 2 of their 20" SS barrels [ 5.56 and 6.5 Grendel] and they shoot 1 MOA at 100 yards. That is plenty good enough for me I'm not trying to win target matches with the rifles. I own 2 different Savage Bolt Rifles for that Job. [ 6 MM C/M and 22-250 ]

It has been my experience that a lot of of accuracy issues with rifes or handguns is the SHOO-TER . The other biggie is the improper mounting of scopes.

[FLshooter]

When I get a cheaper barrel it takes more time and effort to get it to do close to what my quality barrel does effortlessly out of the box.I had probably 300 rounds through my stainless 24 inch Grandel BCA barrel to get it shoot MOA consistently . My Bartlein was doing sub moa once the scope was sighted in! 5 shots!
I paid $450 for my Bartlein barrel.Only $200 for a complete BCA Grendel SS 24 inch upper.But when you add all the effort and bullets I put into a BCA barrel it ended up costing more. And in the end it still was a BCA barrel.So I sold it.
Not bashing BCA. They fill a niche.I know several shooters that love to tinker with their loads and they get BCA barrels to shoot well. I like my rifle to be as accurate as it can possibly be. I still buy BCA uppers. I just sell the barrel from the start and install a quality one.

[sbowhuntr]

I had a bca 20" ss that shot great 3 shot groups but those great groups fell apart when I went to 5 shot and fell off planet earth when 10 shot groups were tried. I bought the 20" gbb and am now shooting just under 1" 5 shot groups @ 100y, and its only getting better as I break it in. The bca was a good hunting barrel as rarely do you shoot more than 3 shots but now I am more confident in my barrel and alot less ammo is going into this gbb than did the bca, and less trips to the range also.

[Hollis]

What do any of you know about the Monster barrel? As of now, the BCA SS barrel is more accurate. I putting more rounds and more care and attention to the 20" Monster barrel now that I sold the SS, but does anyone have some data on what to expect as I put more rounds through it? It has probably around 100 rounds or less through it now. I am also open to suggestions on how to improve the barrel. I'm using the same scope, lower and BCG that I was using for the SS barrel, so I don't think that is holding me back.

I'll try to get back to the range tomorrow and try a couple of different types of factory ammo and see if I find a sweet spot.

I really appreciate all the feedback and suggestions from all of you.

[1075 tech]

I see on your targets that you are shooting American Gunner ammo. I haven't tried any and have no personal experience with it, but try the Hornady Black. It seems to shoot well in everything I have. It's a laser beam in my Howa 20".

[LRRPF52]

Shoot multiple 5rd groups to get a better idea of how a barrel will consistently group and register for POI vs POA.

I don't spend a ton of time messing with 100yd groups once a barrel shows that it will group for me since I much prefer the satisfaction of impact on steel, but I still want to know how it groups out of the gate.

3-round groups that consistently group to POA is fine for a hunting rifle, provided that we're looking at typical hunts where you don't expect to shoot a long string of fire at distances over whatever the accuracy threshold is for the vital zone of the particual game.

[Jorge0272]

Don't know, but it seems to me the Group buy barrel is not that good per a lot of reviews on here. Really hope not. I have an 18" and a 12" that I have yet to shoot.
I did have a BCA 16" 300Blk barrel cut down to 12" for an SBR that shot amazing. Sold the upper because I was getting out of 300Blk and getting into the Grendel.
I also have a 16" BCA in 556, but I also have yet to shoot that one.
I need to stop building and get to the range.

[Hollis]

I see on your targets that you are shooting American Gunner ammo. I haven't tried any and have no personal experience with it, but try the Hornady Black. It seems to shoot well in everything I have. It's a laser beam in my Howa 20".

I have used the Hornady Black and it shoots pretty much the same as the Hornady Black ELD from my experience, but I was able to get the Am Gunner for a great price.

Append:
NOTE: From this point down, this post takes a turn to reloading. If you're not interested in reloading and learning from or joining the conversation, then you might want to stop here.

[sbowhuntr]

I would suggest you spend some money on a reloading set up. I never got great groups from the gunner or eld ammo to be honest, or let alone any other factory ammo. Benchrest shooters strive for tiny groups but not with factory ammo. I only use factory ammo to break my barrels in with then to the reloading bench to find that one sweet load. As for bad reviews on the gbb that only has to do with people not getting good groups are the only ones posting their findings. My gbb is far and above the bca I had as I am already getting sub moa and its not even broke in yet. I dont judge a barrel by 3 shot groups either, 5 shot minimum or 10 if you want the truth.

[FLshooter]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said!
If you want the tightest possible groups,you have to handload. And sometimes it can be a challenge to come up with the right bullet and load combination.

[Hollis]

I would suggest you spend some money on a reloading set up. I never got great groups from the gunner or eld ammo to be honest, or let alone any other factory ammo. Benchrest shooters strive for tiny groups but not with factory ammo. I only use factory ammo to break my barrels in with then to the reloading bench to find that one sweet load. As for bad reviews on the gbb that only has to do with people not getting good groups are the only ones posting their findings. My gbb is far and above the bca I had as I am already getting sub moa and its not even broke in yet. I dont judge a barrel by 3 shot groups either, 5 shot minimum or 10 if you want the truth.

Reloading does appear to be in my not too distant future. It sounds right up my ally - calculation, measurements, tinkering, building things, etc. and then you get to shoot it! How much is the start up cost for reloading?

[Hollis]

Shoot multiple 5rd groups to get a better idea of how a barrel will consistently group and register for POI vs POA.

I don't spend a ton of time messing with 100yd groups once a barrel shows that it will group for me since I much prefer the satisfaction of impact on steel, but I still want to know how it groups out of the gate.

3-round groups that consistently group to POA is fine for a hunting rifle, provided that we're looking at typical hunts where you don't expect to shoot a long string of fire at distances over whatever the accuracy threshold is for the vital zone of the particual game.

I also much more prefer shooting steel targets at long distances over shooting groups at 100 yards. But I am doing a lot of 100 yard groups in proving setup and shooter. But I do believe I am decent shooting skills (with exceptions of occasional pulls). When I use my 770 .243 and my 6.5 Creedmoor rifles, I shoot really tight groups with factory ammo.

For now, I'm shooting more 3 shot groups instead of less 5 shot groups. For example, I will shoot five 3 shot groups instead of three 5 shot groups. The reason I do this is that if I yank one, I only mess up one group. And then there is the psychological effect of shooting 4 really great shots and then choking on the last shot. I am more comfortable with a quick 3 shot group. But I'll need to "grow out" of this and start shooting 5 shot groups once I am more confident - I'm just about there.

[Hollis]

It has been my experience that a lot of of accuracy issues with rifes or handguns is the SHOO-TER . The other biggie is the improper mounting of scopes.

I have learned my lesson with scope mounting! I have learned a lot about how to do it and have a pretty reliable system now that gets my scope to aim where it needs to be and to stay where it is supposed to be.

[sbowhuntr]

Reloading does appear to be in my not too distant future. It sounds right up my ally - calculation, measurements, tinkering, building things, etc. and then you get to shoot it! How much is the start up cost for reloading?

You can get started with a lee anniversary kit for around $150 delivered, dies are around $50 delivered then powder @ $25-$30 per pound, primers $25-$40 per 1000 then bullets @ $20-$50 depending on what you want and a good set of calipers. Also get a flash hole deburring tool and a good case trimmer is a must. You can go crazy with other accessories once you get set up. It's cost is not bad and the results will speak for themselves, you will only use factory ammo to break in barrels ever again only to collect the brass.
Forgot to add a hornady lnl headspace kit with the body that works great to get your dies set up to bump your shoulders back a couple thousands so not to over work your brass and then get the hornady lnl comparator 14 piece inserts set so you can measure your oal off the ogive.

[okiecat]

I can't imagine trying to get a gun to shoot with factory ammo. Haven't bought a box in 40yrs now. Please buy quality reloading equipment. Its a one time purchase, get the good stuff (Redding or Bonanza). That is all

[FLshooter]

Reloading does appear to be in my not too distant future. It sounds right up my ally - calculation, measurements, tinkering, building things, etc. and then you get to shoot it! How much is the start up cost for reloading?

When I got back into reloading a few years ago I spent around $1000 on separate components.Starting w/a Rock chucker press and RCBS dies..And later,I added a Forester press and dies. I never liked the starter kits,because most of the components are junk. And I stayed away from anything that has the letters LEE on it.
Watch some YouTube videos and ask questions on this site before you spend your money.

[grayfox]

Echo FLs... Rcbs is a solid and economical setup, get the rock chucker.
Rcbs or Hornady 6.5 Grendel dies, mine actually are the Hdy.
Lots of times you can get the rock in a combo box on sale...

For me the figuring, calculating, tinkering, measuring is all part of the fun.
Keep a log of what you load and of results.
I use a spreadsheet, 1 for each caliber.

Lots of us on here will help you get started with load combo's, and ranges of powder to start.
Each gun is different so you need to do the homework of working thru some load ladders.
But it is rewarding in the end... knowing you have an accurate consistent load means flyers are shooter, which you can work on.

[sbowhuntr]

I use rcbs rockchucker myself but to get started the lee is not that bad. I started with the lee and produced some excellent ammo, that being said the dies i use are mostly forster and rcbs but the lee press works period and is extremely cost effective for the beginning reloader.

[Sturmgewehr]

People in general have varying degree's of desired precision and spend accordingly.
I'm in the purchase phase for all my reloading equipment. Mostly buy once cry once but I usually for all things will buy the 2nd most expensive tier.
Unless I can find it on sale!

The big complaint on a Forster Co-Ax press is the cost and availability. People use presses for decades.

Here's a list I've been compiling using Brownell's prices and manf. p/n's. It's a cut an paste from all over list...
It's not all inclusive but it will get you going.
You have to decide on what methods you want to prime and size the case.

RCBS Universal Shell Tray 9452

MTM RSS-50 Grendel flip top ammo box
#512 frankfort arsenal

Wilson Stainless Steel Chamber Type Bullet Seater #BS65GRN $60

Forster Ultra Micrometer Bullet Seating Die #U00059 $88
Forster Bench Rest Bullet Seating Die #006017 $56
Forster Full length sizing die #005347 $43 $62+15 from Forster for honed neck
Forster Bench Rest Seater & Full Length Sizing Die Set #004256 $95
Forster stuck case remover #SC1000 $20
Forster Shell Holder Adapter Plate for Co-Ax? Press #AP1000 $24
Forster Universal bullet puller #UP1010 $22 - uses a wrench, fits Co-Ax

Redding Competition Bullet Seater #55478 $144
Redding Full length sizing die #91478 $61
Redding Type S Bushing Full Length Sizing Die #77478 $80
Redding Competition MICROMETER Bushing Neck Sizer Die #56478 $145
Redding 6.5 Grendel Body Die #75478 $37
Redding Stuck Case Removal Kit #22000 $24

Lee Collet Necksizing Die - call $70
Lee Universal Decapping die #90292 $12
Lee Universal Decap Pin #90783 $4 - need to file/sand to .054 for lapua brass
Lee 270 HEAVY DUTY GUIDED DECAPPER pin #91578 - need to file/sand for lapua brass
Hornady Universal Decapping die #50085 $25 - incl small pins
Hornady Universal Decapping 5 pin set #396618 $9
HORNADY BULLET PULLER CAMLOCK w/BODY (w/o COLLETS) $29
HORNADY BULLET PULLER COLLET #4 257/264cal $10

Lyman VLD ID Chamfer/Reamer Tool #7777789 $14

Little Crow case trimmer
Giraud case trimmer

Wheeler Engineering AR-15 Upper Receiver Action Rod #1100182 $54

Sinclair Concentricity Gauge w/o indicator #09150 $90

Lyman Gen 6 powder system $210
gempro 250 scale
https://dandyproductsllc.com/products/da...r-trickler $105

Redding Competition Model BR-30 Powder Measure #03300 $220
Harrell's Custom 90 Culver Measure $200
Harrell's BR PREMIUM Powder Measure $240

Redding No. 2 Master scale #2000 $100
https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/jenni...svg20.html $80

RCBS Automatic Priming Tool #9460 $125 - Bench mnt w/tubes
RCBS APS Bench Mounted Priming Tool 88501 $125 - strip style
Co-Ax? Primer Seater with E-Z-Just Shell Holder Jaws #11521 - try to find it