JP vs Larue

[Dinny]

Which is a better builder of rifles and why? I may have the opportunity to drop some serious change on a premium rifle. I want the better of the two rifles.

https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tac...e-rifle-k/

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=RR-JP156.5HR

Thanks, Dinny

[A5BLASTER]

I don't have any hands on experience with any larue products but I do with JP here are my thoughts.

In the long run I think you would have a very hard time telling the difference in accuracy and consistency of groups between the two, their products and builds are that good.

But in my mind I feel JP would have the softer shooting setup due to the fact that is the idea and bases of all JP builds and products.

Not sure on all what Larue offers but I think JP has more options as far as having it built how you would like it.

As far as groups good again no first had experience with Larue but both my grendel JP barrels have been tack drivers.

Not much Intel to go on but hope it helps sir.

[Klem]

You will be the better builder out of both of them.

I say this because I doubt JP' barrels are as accurate as a Lilja, Krieger or Bartlein. I would ignore JP's claim they are cryogenically cooled and focus on the stainless steel part... This is better than LaRue's stock average barrels with BBQ rub and stickers thrown in to keep the fans loyal.

Assembling these things is easy and you get exactly the parts you want with a better quality barrel (you did say you want a 'premium rifle'). It will also likely be the same or cheaper than what they both charge.

[StoneHendge]

When 52 did his review of the Larue Grendel, it struck me that he made a few comparisons to a JP. I've never seen a review where a JP has been compared to a Larue. JP is a benchmark.

[Klem]

I don't know if 'Vetman1' is still active on the forum but he purchased two LaRue's and was unhappy with the accuracy of both. He might chime in with his experience if reading this.

[Mesa1978]

I have a LaRue Stealth, an old one before they blackened the barrels. It’s fine, but not anything extraordinary, the bolt has an unknown pedigree and the gas key is unstaked, I haven’t bothered to find out if they have addressed those in the current product offering, I would bet my life on one of my Colts ahead of the stealth, but that’s just me. The LaRue rail locking assembly is nice, but I have never had my YH or JP foreends come loose. It shoots around .75 MOA which is about what is expected. It didn’t motivate me to buy another LaRue, though. I bought it during the fear time and based upon a mag write up, no need to do that again.

A big plus 1 for Klem’s post. Once I started building, I have never looked back. It’s a bit of a hassle to source all the parts because of availability in some cases, but the knowledge of, and satisfaction in, your build far exceeds the hassle, plus you get exactly what you want, especially for the money you are planning to spend. There is more than enough information on this site on what works, and what doesn’t, to make parts choices you will be happy with and you will get an equal or better performing firearm.

The only thing I would say specifically is to get an adjustable gas block, even without a suppressor., worth their weight in gold.

[Popeye212]

I built my own also and even with a couple of issues I will do it again and already looking at 6mmAR build. I am confident that for money I saved and the experience and the finished product was well worth it. As stated above you can build one equal to or better than the above. And cheaper, just my experience only.

[Jakal]

Spend your money on great optics, a good trigger, and an excellent barrel. Next would be the scope mount, good mated upper/lower set. After that the buffer, tube and spring, buttstock and forerail.

You start building and take your time to do it right and there is a great feeling of satisfaction! Out of 11 AR's, I have bought 3 of them. The rest I have built.

[muvef]

I would do the LaRue ultimate upper kit and a LaRue lower for around $1100. I'm not shooting/practicing enough to shoot better than either rifle anyway.

Spend the rest on optics.

JP will probably be a more accurate rifle. LaRue probably will be more durable. These are assumptions:p

[Kswhitetails]

Okay, Klem's antithesis here. I'll accept the label of LaRue fan, because of experiences gained with mine.

I can't for the life of my figure out what Klem's dislike of LaRue stems from, other than a possible bad experience with them? My rifle is by far smoother, more accurate, and easier to shoot than either of the two others I've built. I'm meticulous, even if relatively new to the game. I squared both receivers by hand, bedded the extensions, and used the right tools for the job in building both of my previous rifles, buying what I didn't have to assemble them correctly. I'm no machinist, and I never measured run out or tolerances while building, but my LaRue looks like they did. My LaRue is far and away smoother and softer shooting than my BCM 5.56 Recce, and the only thing I've ever done with it was install a handguard, after purchasing it as a BCM factory assembly from Brownells long ago.

The LaRue doesn't shoot Hornady Black as well as I'd like, but I've found an easy load that smokes my mind every time out, both with consistency and accuracy. I've never shot or even handled a JP, but I'd imagine they make great stuff from the bragging their fan base provides. I'm working on a longer range capable precision load, and when I get things gathered to generate good data, I'll be posting about that. I've been impressed with the performance of the 129SST, the 123 SMK, the 120 SMK(especially), and the 107SMK. Probably the most impressive is the way the 129SST makes the gongs ring, but my loads were making me skiddish with the suppressor on flattening primers. That may need to be an unsuppressed load.

I put a JP SCS in my BCM - and my LaRue is still smoother, softer, feels better. Much better. With any load. You can't know until you shoot it, but I'll gladly report it's as well put together as any other AR I've ever seen, and I have become an AR quality snob. LWRC, LMT, DPMS, BCM, DD, Geissele, all are really nice. But my LaRue is appreciatively nicer. Maybe it's the way the rail and upper mate together with flanges, pins and cap screws. It's as close to monolithic as you can obtain without paying for a mono. You could pay for a mono for the price of the LaRue, but then you have to deal with the drawbacks associated with building and maintaining it. The enclosed barrel nut never excited me, personally.

I don't think JP can beat the price of the LaRue kit; and if building yourself you won't find a better value. Period. I shoot three round one hole groups routinely, but SH will attest what happens at 4 and 5. If I take it to 10, the hole just gets bigger. There's always a pull, the SH curse.

Perhaps LaRue's one drawback is the secrecy surrounding their barrel material, and treatment/coating processes. I'm not sure why he decides to keep that part a secret, but I'm okay with him calling it "Rearden Steel" because, well, that's pretty damned appropriate. A secret alloy that shows it's dominance by performing rather than bragging about it.

There was no spot on my Rifle when I got it that showed wear. There were no handling marks. There was no extra grease. No finger prints. There was, however a surprising feature. The extension tube had been screwed in one rev too far, the rifle somehow clamshelled together that way, and I had to drive the rear pin out with a delrin punch. After about two minutes, I figured out the problem, backed the tube out one rev, and it's been amazing since. I was dissapointed, and after a phone call, they wanted it back right away to fix any marks or blemishes. I wanted to shoot it first, and Dan told to call them back, they'd send me a box and a label. After the first 60 rounds, I wasn't ever letting it go anywhere without me, so I never called them back. The next time I called, Dan answered the phone, I was buying parts for my pistol build. He asked me how my rifle was, whether I had decided to return it so they could fix it. I was surprised he remembered, it had been several months. I ordered my pistol's MBT. They sent me an APEG grip and Clip set along with a bunch of swag free. I'd buy it again without hesitation. I may well do so.

I don't know you could line the two up for 2k rounds and say for sure which one is better, but I'd be willing to bet you could tell which one shoots smoother, and is more unique. The JP rifles are a high end AR, with a few unique features. The entire LaRue is unique, and it looks it. It's obvious after 800 rounds that little wear is occurring, if noticable at all. Every mark on it is entirely my fault, civilian usage battle scars that each carry a memory of "dang it, Vern!". My LaRUe has never failed to digest any case I've fed it. It has eaten every factory load, even from my ASC mags, which didn't feed in my second stick at all. It's liked and digested all my reloads, and the feedback from them is easy to read because the rifles just so darn smooth.

I've shot 10 shot and 20 shot rapid fired groups, that stay POA at 100 with 120 SMKs and Benchmark. Absolutely no POI change even at 20 rounds. I haven't done the same with any of the others yet. They probably aren't smoking any velocity records, but I'd be impressed with any AR that can claim that.

I've never fired steel cased from it, so I can't attest to it's performance there.

[rabiddawg]

Klem, I knew you were gonna cause this^



And because of the thread title I can’t brag on my Precision Firearms guns that sound exactly like what ksw describes.

[Djgrendel]

I just put on the popcorn. Shouldn't be long now.

[Klem]

By popular demand, here's the next instalment...

KS,

I don't dislike LaRue although I don't think highly of Mark LaRue. I don't live in the States and ML has a policy where he only sells directly from his website to American citizens. One time he rang me to find out how I had accessed one of his mounts, via a Queensland retailer. He was polite and chatty on the phone while soliciting this information. Shortly after he shut down access to Australia. The Queensland retailer now sells ADM and I have swapped out all his mounts for SPUHR (Sweden). What benefit he thinks he achieved by doing this I don't know because he has not stopped Aussies and Kiwi's from sourcing mounts. Probably pointless explaining to him that our soldiers have fought alongside yours against common enemies. This, and the feverish brand loyalty that people like his fan boys display simply punctuates how these things are just guns. The branding that goes with it is just clever marketing.

As for his guns...Sure, I have no doubt they are reliable but my concern about LaRue is that they are not Olympic-quality barrels. To me, 90% of the gun is the barrel and all I am interested in is how well they shoot, the ergonomics and how reliable they are. LaRue's secret barrels are not the best barrels and the associated parts are not what I would consider the best. For example, he does not use full ambi parts which is arguably compulsory for bilateral shooting, or at least for a 'premium' gun (four ambidextrous parts make it fully ambidextrous; charge handle, mag release, safety selector and slide unlocking lever). This is not simply a case of upgrading these parts as it also requires a dedicated lower. Something like a Ranier Ultramatch Ambi, or a San Tan, or CMT Tactical Ambi or Seekins or the old Mega Ambi Billet. LaRue also does not use all 7075 aluminium on the four main receiver parts; upper, lower, handguard and buffer tube. If you buy a LaRue with optics it is not the best available scope. Although I have never used his trigger I am also entitled to believe it is not as good as a Gieselle NM. LaRue's dealings with non-US citizens is unusually nationalistic but separate from my opinion of his company's fully assembled rifles. His mounts are however very good which is what he first started out retailing.

If I have upset you in any way then in a light-hearted way I am glad because I want to emphasise it is just a gun we are talking about. Our rifles should not be self-extensions or identity prosthetics, although I do admit to deriving a sense of purpose from them. Brand loyalty is not a 'religion' worth getting fired-up about. Guns are just tools made out of metal and plastic in a factory. If however brand loyalty and aesthetics are important to you then go for it, but if you just want the most accurate, reliable gun then I would argue no retailer out there currently has that monopoly. Plus, you will never know what they did and the decisions they made when putting it together. Some things you just have to do yourself... To be absolutely sure.

[Popeye212]

Klem said "cryogenically cooled" You can do that at too. I did it to Frosty. She stressed relieved in the AP upper after spending the night in the freezer. Another reason to build your own I would have had to pay for shipping and somebody else to freeze the same barrel I did at home for free. Saved a bunch of money on that one.

[Kswhitetails]

Okay, I’ll play. I am in no way offended, and I’m glad you are lightheaded about this because I find that at the moment at least Johnny Walker and I are too! Really though, I’m glad you’re here to keep the faith for Grendel. I can’t say I’m surprised by your experience, though im surprised to hear of Marks decisions. Mark can be somewhat of an ass, if video of him at several shot shows is to be believed. I know however that he has the mind and practice of a perfectionist, and brings that to his rifles. Im actually sorry you don’t get the chance to hold one of these, you’d find many things surrounding the mystique are in fact real.

Look, I’m admittedly a fanboy. But I’ll have words with anyone that downplays the overriding sense and reality that is the quality of this rifle. If I’m a fanboy it’s only because the circumstances have made me so, those being the performance and enjoyment this rifle has brought to my shooting. I’m not sure what you mean by Olympic grade. I’m new to rifles, comparing myself to you. That’s not a diminutive statement, only one of fact. It’s obvious to anyone who reads your delightful posts realizes right away that you are indeed the real deal, giving honest advice as you see things. I love that.

I’m just here to tell you that you’re almost right here, and that I am completely right. That’s all.

On the original post, I am convinced that either route chosen would convince the OP that whatever choice he makes here will have been the right one.

I love this board!

[StoneHendge]

I've never purchased a LaRue product. But given the restrictions on exporting firearms and parts and the associated red tape, I don't blame someone for not exporting if they don't want to or need to. It may not be worth the risk to your business and livelihood. Sounds like he had some product showing up on the gray market. Sure, you can get away with selling uranium to the Russians or missile technology to North Korea if you give to the right Foundation. But if your a regular Joe, one mistake or even perceived mistake made now could get the gun grabbers looking for blood if they ever get back in power. If you can't get the bans your looking for because of that pesky old Constitution, you can always try to go after the producers and distributors for not dotting their i's or crossing their t's.

[Randy99CL]

Klem said "cryogenically cooled" You can do that at too. I did it to Frosty. She stressed relieved in the AP upper after spending the night in the freezer. Another reason to build your own I would have had to pay for shipping and somebody else to freeze the same barrel I did at home for free. Saved a bunch of money on that one.

Are you serious? Do you think your kitchen freezer did the same job as those they use to "cryo" treat barrels?
Who is Frosty?

[Klem]

I think you will find Popeye is having a bit of fun at the expense of a questionable character who breezed onto the forum a few months ago touting the miracle benefits of cryogenic cooling. The emoticon at the end gives it away nicely. 'Frosty' is the name of his gun and if I remember rightly he had to stick the barrel in the fridge to get it into the upper. I'll admit to bringing the cryogenic bit up, but to be fair JP does state it on their website.

KS,

Thanks for the kind words...Enjoy membership of the LaRue community while it lasts because if you hang around here long enough you will start to wonder, and question yourself, and think about things some more, like maybe, maybe, there are other options. Stare into the Dillo Dust container for reassurance but it's just cheap seasoning. Maybe that $10 Nalgene bottle with the LaRue logo on it (full of Kool-Aid) is just you paying after-tax $$$ to advertise his business, when it really should be them paying you! Meanwhile, other shooters look away knowingly swigging plain water from their cheaper generic Nalgene's. After a while you realise, why did I join this cult? It's time to make my own decisions...It's time to build a better gun!

[Sticks]

I think you will find Popeye is having a bit of fun at the expense of ...Three... questionable characters who breezed onto the forum a few months ago touting the miracle benefits of cryogenic cooling. The emoticon at the end gives it away nicely. 'Frosty' is the name of his gun and if I remember rightly he had to stick the barrel in the fridge to get it into the upper. I'll admit to bringing the cryogenic bit up, but to be fair JP does state it on their website.

KS,

Thanks for the kind words...Enjoy membership of the LaRue community while it lasts because if you hang around here long enough you will start to wonder, and question yourself, and think about things some more, like maybe, maybe, there are other options. Stare into the Dillo Dust container for reassurance but it's just cheap seasoning. Maybe that $10 Nalgene bottle with the LaRue logo on it (full of Kool-Aid) is just you paying after-tax $$$ to advertise his business, when it really should be them paying you! Meanwhile, other shooters look away knowingly swigging plain water from their cheaper generic Nalgene's. After a while you realise, why did I join this cult? It's time to make my own decisions...It's time to build a better gun!

Fixed the first line for you.


Another wonder is why PF stays at the head of the game as well given their customer service, epic delays and questionable QC.

JP Builds race guns and focuses around competition. Larue is more along the lines of longevity and rough handling. I own neither.

[Jakal]

I have a PF Bartlien barrel that cost 2x my Lilja and it dosen't shoot any better. It is actually more picky and finicky. I can't use some normal powders like CFE or bullets like the SST.
AR-COMP and Scenar are what I can shoot with it. It took over 6 months to get the barrel. I bought it because of the reviews on this board. To say the least, I am not impressed but it shoots. So no recourse there. I won't buy any more PF gear.

I'll stick with Lilja barrels and build my own guns.