Post Load Data Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR with 120gr Projectiles

[HuntTXhogs]

UPDATE: RESULTS ARE ON PAGE TWO FOR 120gr Sierra Pro Hunter and 120 gr Prvi HPBT

A bullet is A bullet until it isn’t...

Speer’s GoldDot isn’t from another planet, it wasn’t forged from the belly of a volcano - so why is it the only 120 grain bullet with a posted velocity 200 FPS faster than any other bullet/powder combination.

I’m not buying that Alliant’s competition doesn’t have ‘similar’ powders of the same burn rate that can’t push the GoldDot to the same speeds.

Not for nothing but somebody is going to transfer that load data to another manufacturers 120 grain bullet and find out that Powder in the eyes doesn’t feel good.

The mythical GoldDot/Power Pro MR load that just now comes to the Grendel scene , 10 years after everything’s been accomplished , and I’m supposed to believe it’s just a fluke???

Plated jacket , sexy BC , I ain’t buying it...

What if I put some nickel boron on these can I get 2900 FPS

I’ll eat my words IF

I load the bullet and powder combo and it achieves the rated velocity AND is subMOA.

I’ll buy 10k bullets if it is bonded and performs like the venerable (discontinued) Speer DeepCurl bullet which was on the market for less than 2 years and then pulled due to ‘unexpected/rapid pressure spikes’

Tagging my own post for later reference ........

[HuntTXhogs]

Can you even squeeze 31.4 grains of powder in a case with a 1”+ bullet and still seat it to magazine length???

I’m skeptical...

Win748 is a pretty fine ball powder tends to afford max room for bullets and the Power Pro MR is 2.8 grains MORE and isn’t even listed as a compressed charge !

I’ll say it another way , The Hulk (Power Pro MR/GoldDot), is head and shoulders above the rest

Energy values using Speers data:

Power Pro MR - 1829 ft lbs

Win748 - 1640 ft lbs

IMR 8208 XBR - 1548 ft lbs

Vit N135 - 1442 ft lbs

[HuntTXhogs]

This is eating at me, can you tell...

I have Win748 on hand, I have a Sierra 120 grain pro hunter, I have new Grendel brass - lets do some 'eyeballing' of 31.4 grains of Win748.

Powder doesn't leave room for a flat base bullet, lets see what the length is of the GoldDot.....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11093[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]11094[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]11095[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]11096[/ATTACH]

[VASCAR2]

The 31.4 grains of Winchester 748 is over max load on all my reloading data. Hornady shows 31.2 as a max charge with 120-123 grain bullets in the 9th edition. The old AA load data showed 30.0 grains of 748 with 120 grain Barnes TSX which is a monolithic bullet and 30.0 grains 748 as max with a Berger 120 grain match tactical.

Just as an example I have loaded 31.0 grains of CFE 223 with 120 grain Sierra Pro Hunters in Hornady cases and CCI 450 primers with no signs of pressure. There was enough room in the case and the powder was not compressed.

I loaded some 748 in fire formed X39 brass to 6.5 Grendel and got decent accuracy with 748 but FF X39 cases have less case capacity and I loaded way below max with 748. Winchester 748 is not real tempersture stable so I tend to load well below max as I see significant temperature swings in the midwest.

[HuntTXhogs]

The 31.4 grains of Winchester 748 is over max load on all my reloading data. Hornady shows 31.2 as a max charge with 120-123 grain bullets in the 9th edition. The old AA load data showed 30.0 grains of 748 with 120 grain Barnes TSX which is a monolithic bullet and 30.0 grains 748 as max with a Berger 120 grain match tactical.

Just as an example I have loaded 31.0 grains of CFE 223 with 120 grain Sierra Pro Hunters in Hornady cases and CCI 450 primers with no signs of pressure. There was enough room in the case and the powder was not compressed.

I loaded some 748 in fire formed X39 brass to 6.5 Grendel and got decent accuracy with 748 but FF X39 cases have less case capacity and I loaded way below max with 748. Winchester 748 is not real tempersture stable so I tend to load well below max as I see significant temperature swings in the midwest.

Good to know , I hadn’t ever loaded more than 30 grains of any powder in a Grendel case so 31.4 seemed ambitious

Speaking of ambitious - 30 bucks (after shipping or tax) for 50 gold dots ... sheesh , the deep curls Speer used to sell were 24.00 for 100.

When did duty bullets get so expensive ?

Gotta love Alliants marketing of 2000-MR

* repeatable cloverleaf groupings

... this ought to be good

[VASCAR2]

I think one factor driving the cost of cup & core bullets is the closure of the last lead smeltering plant in the US a few years ago. The only virgin lead in the US has to be imported otherwise the lead comes from recycled products. The cost of new lead acid auto batteries has doubled in my area.


We can thank the EPA for the closure of the last smeltering plant in Missouri a few years ago. I know of three closed factories in my area which produced lead products which has garnered a lot of Federal Super Fund money for cleanup. I can’t help but wonder if this is the result of government corporate pay off scheme reminiscent of the refrigerents in AC units destroying the ozone.

[HuntTXhogs]

I think one factor driving the cost of cup & core bullets is the closer of the last lead smeltering plant in the US a few years ago. The only virgin lead in the US has to be imported otherwise the lead comes from recycled products. The cost of new lead acid auto batteries has doubled in my area.


We can thank the EPA for the closer of the last smeltering plant in Missouri a few years ago. I know of three closed factories in my area which produced lead products which has garnered a lot of Federal Super Fund money for cleanup. I can’t help but wonder if this is the result of government corporate pay off scheme reminiscent of the refrigerents in AC units destroying the ozone.

I was tracking right along with you on this theory until I see that the going rate for 100 count of 30 cal gold dot is 30.00....

Looks like retailers are thinking the 6.5mm buyers are “premium customers”

[HuntTXhogs]

Picked up some PP2kMR today, I have 300 pieces of new Hornady brass primed with CCI450 primers ready to rock.

Speer reported via telephone to me today that they do not know when the 120 grain Gold Dot will be released to dealers, so that part of this project will have to wait until Speer is ready.

I will begin with Sierra Pro Hunter 120 grain bullets and this powder. The bullet hits the lands in my rifle at a COAL less than magazine length and is 1.070" in length so it is my thought that if ANY other 120 grain bullet is going to match the velocity numbers from Speer's recipe guide it would be this shorter bullet.

I will more than likely work this slow and steady from the starting charge weight of 28.5 grains. Temps for the next month will be 40 - 70 degrees, by June/July we'll be in the 90+ and I'll have to see what these rounds do then.

I also ordered some 120 grain ELD-Match and 120 grain Prvi HPBT bullets, both of these will be longer than the Pro Hunter and Gold Dot (Speer guessed it is 1.120" in length), and I assume that velocities won't be able to go to max due to powder encroachment.

So the goal with the Pro Hunters is 2525 FPS, I'll try to use a chronograph to watch for velocity flattening or spikes... This is a lightweight Grendel rifle with an 18" barrel

[Splatt]

In on watching this thread !

[VASCAR2]

The Speer data with the PP 2000 MR is 2620 FPS out of a 24” barrel. The results I’ve gotten with other powders are 2475 FPS to 2525 FPS with an 18” barrel and 120-123 grain bullets. I’ll be interested to see what velocities you get with the PP 2000 MR powder as it is available at a local shop.

[LRRPF52]

2590-2620fps from a 24" with a 120gr cup/core bullet is normal for several of the ball powders for 6.5 Grendel, namely AA2520, BL-C(2), and Win 748.

CFE223 and LeveRevolution will out-perform them all in my experience for speed.

[HuntTXhogs]

2590-2620fps from a 24" with a 120gr cup/core bullet is normal for several of the ball powders for 6.5 Grendel, namely AA2520, BL-C(2), and Win 748.

CFE223 and LeveRevolution will out-perform them all in my experience for speed.

I’ll admit, I’ve stepped away from the 6.5 Grendel a few times over the last 5 years never really delving into the scene that extends beyond posted powders and speeds.

I’m not devoted or bought in for that level of immersion but I acknowledge that a good sum of the community here has done the due diligence to find receipes that make 2590-2620 out of a 24” barrel a reality.

That said, I’m looking at two reloading sources Speer and Sierra and out of 28 listed loads , 2 are described as being able to hit the mark.

So from that perspective I feel as though the venture to see what one of these powders will do with a couple different 120 grain bullets has informational value and possible hunting applications.

I feel somewhat safer in following a book being that I am a casual Grendel user...

[Drillboss]

I’ll admit, I’ve stepped away from the 6.5 Grendel a few times over the last 5 years never really delving into the scene that extends beyond posted powders and speeds.

I’m not devoted or bought in for that level of immersion but I acknowledge that a good sum of the community here has done the due diligence to find receipes that make 2590-2620 out of a 24” barrel a reality.

That said, I’m looking at two reloading sources Speer and Sierra and out of 28 listed loads , 2 are described as being able to hit the mark.

So from that perspective I feel as though the venture to see what one of these powders will do with a couple different 120 grain bullets has informational value and possible hunting applications.

I feel somewhat safer in following a book being that I am a casual Grendel user...

I'm with you Hunt, in that I'm a big fan of pressure tested data. In general, I'm leery of Speer's data, since most of their 120 gr loads are much lighter weight in grains and slower in velocity than other published data I've seen. Maybe it's because of their bullet, I don't know.

The data they have for PP-2000 is interesting, since it is so much higher than the other powders they tested. One thing I'd mention is that expecting 2620 fps from an 18" barrel with the Sierra 120 PH may not be what to look for. The difference in barrel lengths says you should be looking for about 2500 fps with an equivalent loading.

Looking forward to your results, I've been playing with PP-Varmint recently.

[HuntTXhogs]

I hear ya DrillBoss -

I saw the other thread on PP Varmint and avoided posting this effort there to avoid confusion, reloading can be complicated enough with the amount of information available online.

And you’re right the 6” difference in barrel length is probably going to result in sub 2550 speeds, I will edit the above goal.

I do have a fast barrel though

[Kswhitetails]

I do have a fast barrel though

That's what she said!

[Drillboss]

Y'all are killing me...

[HuntTXhogs]

Took some measurements tonight of the Sierra 120 grain Pro Hunter and my chamber, seems like the bullets are consistently hitting the lands at ~ 2.2320". My methods are crude as I use a wooden dowel to push the bullet into the lands and then lightly tap it back out through the muzzle end and measure.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11130[/ATTACH]

Since this is intended to be loaded for hunting I will attempt to seat the bullet .008" off the lands at ~ 2.2260"

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11131[/ATTACH]

This is a flat base bullet so you can see through the relief cuts how deeply set into the case the Pro Hunter is

Looking at Sierra's load data, they show the other Alliant Power Pro Powder going all the way up to 29.6 grains @ 2600 FPS

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11132[/ATTACH]

Comparing this to the Speer load data for the 120 grain Gold Dot you'll see they listed their max load at 27.3 which is the midrange of Sierra's load data.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11133[/ATTACH]

I'm wondering if Sierra is misprinting the Alliant powder and is actually using 2000-MR .... Nah probably not - but again it is interesting that Speer stopped at 27.3 grains and listed 2000-MR well past where Sierra stopped with Power Pro (29.6).

I just seated a bullet successfully (without springback from compression on powder) with 31.4 grains of PP2k-MR. So it looks doable , I’ll shoot and monitor velocity on lower charges and report back here hopefully by Monday

[Sticks]

Different MFG bullets, different results. Be careful.

[LRRPF52]

I’ll admit, I’ve stepped away from the 6.5 Grendel a few times over the last 5 years never really delving into the scene that extends beyond posted powders and speeds.

I’m not devoted or bought in for that level of immersion but I acknowledge that a good sum of the community here has done the due diligence to find receipes that make 2590-2620 out of a 24” barrel a reality.

That said, I’m looking at two reloading sources Speer and Sierra and out of 28 listed loads , 2 are described as being able to hit the mark.

So from that perspective I feel as though the venture to see what one of these powders will do with a couple different 120 grain bullets has informational value and possible hunting applications.

I feel somewhat safer in following a book being that I am a casual Grendel user...

I'm tracking, and talking about book data from AA, Hodgdon's, Western, Vihtavuori, Hornady, and everything in Volume I and Volume II that we put together. I'm not talking about pushing beyond 50,000psi, but tested loads in calibrated pressure trace breeches, starting with Alexander Arms data Bill did.

With 120gr and CFE223, I'm hitting the max speeds generated by the fastest of the other ball powders, but with less peak pressure.

If I load to max with CFE223, I'm getting well above 2500fps even from a 16" barrel.

With many 24" barrels, 2650fps is not out of reach using CFE223 and still not exceeding max with a 123gr even. Some barrels are slower, some faster.

[HuntTXhogs]

I'm tracking, and talking about book data from AA, Hodgdon's, Western, Vihtavuori, Hornady, and everything in Volume I and Volume II that we put together. I'm not talking about pushing beyond 50,000psi, but tested loads in calibrated pressure trace breeches, starting with Alexander Arms data Bill did.

With 120gr and CFE223, I'm hitting the max speeds generated by the fastest of the other ball powders, but with less peak pressure.

If I load to max with CFE223, I'm getting well above 2500fps even from a 16" barrel.

With many 24" barrels, 2650fps is not out of reach using CFE223 and still not exceeding max with a 123gr even. Some barrels are slower, some faster.

I do see CFE223 in the Hornady book, shows 2500 FPS at max which is less than PP2K-MR by 120 FPS.

I guess what I’m hearing you say is that most shooters are seeing much higher velocities than the published speed ?

I’m curious what’s the fastest safe speed anybody has recorded with an 18 or 16 inch barrel ? And how many folks have been able to duplicate it?

I don’t mind running the Speer ladder with both PP2K-MR and CFE223 to compare stated and actual velocities - winner on this will probably be what I stick with for Prvi and Gold Dots (whenever those fall to Earth from the heavens...)