first AR10 build parts list advice s'il vous plaît

[The Profit Joseph Sith]

So it seems my state is going to go to the dark side here rapidly. Sounds like "trigger modifications" and bumpstocks are on the chopping block first. Who knows whats next. Hopefully it all fails miserably.
All my grendel parts are pretty much acquired just some minor fiddling left. So I'm going to fast track a large frame build and at least get some key peices while i still can.
I'd love some input on a few parts and key things to look out for if anything is vastly different than a small frame AR15 build.
So longer ranges is the goal. Going for another 6.5 maybe some of you have heard of this creedmoor round? Heres the parts list so far.

M5/E1 upper not sure if i like the threaded or proprietary better. Any thoughts?
5D lower
LaRue trigger
APEG grip
Toolcraft 9310 BCG

not sure about the rest of the parts.
Im leaning towards a rifle length +2" gas system and a 22"-24" tube. heavier profile but not full bull. I could justify about $300-400 easily for the barrel. Maybe even $500 for now. Suggestions?
Type of buttstock for LRP or ELRP i like A2's and PRS's but not really to sure.
Best magazines for both .308 AND creedmoor as you never know what the future may hold. These will probably be the next purchase thinking 2-4 pmags and 4 L7AWM's.
Handgaurd? obviously if i get the M5E1 im stuck with AP's a HUGE drawback in my mind as im stuck with it. And if it gets pooched i might be screwed. Thinking about the troy alpha, JP, Geissele, Midwest.

Money isnt so much an issue with this one as im not building six this time (thank god) just no $1k barrels (at least not yet

[VASCAR2]

I’ve read where people have blown primers with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I think if the bolt face has to large of firing pin hole it causes issues. I was reading where a person had trouble with a 6.5 CM Ballistic Advantage barrel blowing primers and tried a JP high pressure bolt which solved his problem.

The large frame AR-10 is really quite different than going small AR-15 and the large frame parts are not as interchangeable as the small frame. There appears to be differences between what might work for a 308/7.62X51 and might not work with a 6.5 CM and 260.


With my luck I’m sure I would do my research before buying and then still have a couple goofs.

[StoneHendge]

In my experience, Aero’s prowess in AR-15 does not translate into the AR10 platform. Barrel fit was sloppy. I bought the Aero LPK to be on the safe side and I’ve been having problems with the bolt catch. Sometimes it only catches the carrier and not the bolt when the mag empties. Sometimes it loses its grip and the bolt will slam forward if I bump it. I use a chamber flag when I’m in the field with it. I think proper tensioning of the screw might have solved it, but I haven’t gotten into the field to check.

Definitely go with R+2 - slower powders and timing are an issue. Full mass carrier to delay unlocking. Adjustable gas block is necessary -Proof recommended Superlative bleed off to me and it’s been working.

C-Products mags allow for the longest COAL. I use PMags for 130 gr Norma GTs, but the C Products allow for another 0.055” and is what I use for 140 RDFs. I doubt my barrel would shoot them well at PMag length.

You’ll see that most of the higher end barrel manufacturers recommend a JP high pressure bolt. Be prepared for sticker shock! A JP barrel is actually well within your price range when you consider that it comes with the bolt. The downside to skimping on the bolt is that most guys can’t get past 130s and there are some out there that can’t even get past 123s. Very few can get worthwhile velocities with 140s. My sweet spot with 140 RDFs is a Hodgdon max charge of 41 gr of H4350.

Also start keeping an eye out for H4350. It IS the powder you want.

Edit: I was typing while VASCAR was posting, but he hit the nail on the head IN RE the bolt.

[dpete]

For the best advice on a AR308 build go here:
https://forum.308ar.com/

Ask your questions and you will get honest answers without the typical online BS of other forums.

Vascar is right....they are a totally different animal. No Mil-spec, every manufacturer can make and usually does make proprietary parts. Different patterns of rifles and in the case of DPMS, 3 different versions. It is best to use upper/lower receivers and BCG from the same manufacturer to make sure all the major parts play nice together. Tolerance stacking in the big frame ARs can rear up and bite you if you aren't very careful.

[The Profit Joseph Sith]

With my luck I’m sure I would do my research before buying and then still have a couple goofs.

Boy do i hear that brother.

Thanks dudes. duely noted fellas. i got the BCG for so cheap $114 i could justify spending more on a better bolt.(JP) and ive always wanted to try one of their tubes kinda sounds like a good excuse. I have near future plans for one of their .22lr kits.

[Redomen]

I’ve been pondering a 6.5 creedmore build myself. My old man has been shooting a .264 Win. Mag forever and every time I’m at deer camp he eggs me on about how I should build a Creedmoor. I love my Grendel’s but think I might build one just to satisfy him. He’s in hit mid 70’s so I don’t know how much time we will have together.

[VASCAR2]

I really like putting AR-15’s together but if I wanted a 6.5 Creedmoor semi auto I’d seriously consider just buying a Savage new MSR 10 Semi Auto. I read the size was similar to a DPMS G2 size.

The MSR 10 long range uses a 22” 5R QPQ barrel and uses Magpul magazines.


https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobi...5/redirect


I think the MSR 10 18” Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor would be pretty cool also but would give up a little velocity but cheaper.


https://www.classicfirearms.com/savage-2...r-semiauto

[StoneHendge]

One thing I'll add is that Aero uses a proprietary barrel nut. They give you one with the upper kit, but won't sell you one ala carte. If you need a replacement, you need to ask them for one and hope they give you one. I ended up having to get a replacement since even though it installs with a standard AR15 armorers wrench, my standard armorers wrench didn't work.

I really like putting AR-15’s together but if I wanted a 6.5 Creedmoor semi auto I’d seriously consider just buying a Savage new MSR 10 Semi Auto. I read the size was similar to a DPMS G2 size.

The MSR 10 long range uses a 22” 5R QPQ barrel and uses Magpul magazines.


https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobi...5/redirect


I think the MSR 10 18” Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor would be pretty cool also but would give up a little velocity but cheaper.


https://www.classicfirearms.com/savage-2...r-semiauto

Nah....

[video=youtube_share;VZ2HcRl4wSk]https://youtu.be/VZ2HcRl4wSk[/video]

[Arkhangel5]

I will offer my experience on my AR-10 build. Built in 6.5 Creedmoor just because I just did not want another .308

First off, my rifle is mostly Aero Precision parts, and is built to compete in NRA AR-Tactical matches, so barrel length is limited to 20in.

Parts:
Upper/Lower - AP M5

Barrel - Ballistic Advantage 20in 8twist, .875 at gas block(BA is sister company to AP), rifle length gas

Trigger- Larue MBT-2s, had very usable AP standard trigger before change.

BCG - Toolcraft, usable, but changing bolt to AP bolt, which comes in high pressure config.

Adj Gas Block - Superlative arms.

Handguard- AP 15in keymod, bought as a blem, barrel nut is AP, so it all fits together easily.

Has a extra heavy buffer spring istalled.

Rifle weighs 13.6lbs with bipod and optic. 14lb limit class it competes in.

Rifle went together easily, proof would be in how it shot.

It shot smooth from the beginning, no jamming etc. Thing was it pierced primers with 140gr regular 6.5Creed ammunition. Tried Hornady Black ammunition which is loaded for semi-autos, is a little slower than 'regular' ammo, no pierced primers.

My rifle shoots my 140gr handloaded rounds at 2640fps, good enough for what I need it for.

My preferred load is a 130gr ELD going 2750fps, have shot this to 1000yds.

I will revisit the 140gr loads going faster after I change to the high pressure bolt.

All my handloads are loaded to magazine length and shoot .5moa, I have no need to squeeze any more accuracy out of it.

One thing I will point out about the Creedmoor round, is the heat generated. Initially I wanted a thinner profile barrel to keep weight down, but after shooting it, I don't think I would go thinner than .875 at the gas block. Ejected brass is hot enough to melt the material of a moving blanket. You risk serious burns if you accidentally pick a freshly ejected round. The heat generated over the course of 20+ rounds in a string is enough to distort the image thru a scope.

I have 700+ rounds thru my rifle to date, I like it almost as much as I like my Grendel.

Just my experience,
SY

[Eric]

Nice, maybe long term I'll do a large frame AR build. I can't speak to the receivers or handguards.

I have the MBT and it's absolutely great. I'll just add that I also have heard of issues with blown primers in 6.5 Creedmoor with the Toolcraft bolt. The Aero Precision bold face has a small firing pin hole to address that and by all accounts does well. The BCG isn't too badly priced either, for instance: http://www.schuylerarmsco.com/winter-sal...de-9932081

[StoneHendge]

SY, were able to find the aero bolt ala cart? (Sans the carrier)

[blackholegun]

Just my two cents worth, I built an AR10 from AP upper and lower, BA bcg and 18" barrel.
I did buy an SLR gas block and JPSCS , have not had any problems with it.
No pierced primers, knock on wood.
As other people have stated before, it is a different animal.
In the end, it is a very heavy gun, nothing you are going to walk around with for sure.

[Arkhangel5]

SH,
I dont know if you can get a AP bolt by itself.

I was given this bolt sans firing pin when I got the upper/lower. I just never used it because I had the whole Toolcraft bolt.

Eric,
I have never blown a primer with the Creed, only pierced a few.

I have seen JP Creedmoors rip up case rims, but has always been factory ammo and lite bullets, for what it is worth.

SY

[The Profit Joseph Sith]

Im trying to stay as main stream as possible which means most common form factor heavily leaning toward M5 threaded upper. Unless someone can give me a great reason to get the proprietary AP upper. With the point about the hard to replace barrel nut i think my minds pretty much made up in that regard.
I'm probably open to buying a M5E1 lower just in case the other lower doesnt work. Also not completely closed minded to going .308 or 7.62x51 or other variant If creedmoor doesn't work out. Im fairly flexible.
I cant remeber off hand but i am kinda partial to 5R barrel and the faxon tube is on the potential list.
Thanks for the advice on heat. I was curious about potential profiles. I dont really plan on ever shooting strings with this setup unless things go really side ways.

And pardon my ignorance but can anyone tell me whats the increase in energy and range over a grendel extra 500m or so? From Stone's rundown its sounds like its fairly similar to or not much greater than popular grendel loadings?

If anyone has the JP bolt could they give me a firing pin hole diameter so i could compare it to mine please.
Peirced primers aren't related to excess firing pin protrusion? Just pin hole diameter? Using harder military primers doesn't improve this problem at all?

If ive forgot any other points ive read them all and appreciate the input. Im a little more hesitant but still might give it a try.

Hmm. I wonder if toolcraft will warranty it? Thats one of the reasons i bit, was the "no questions asked warranty" ..not holding my breath.. Not all is lost either.

[The Profit Joseph Sith]

Sounds like the mag ban is on the way soo i think either way im going to blow 2-3 benji's on those asap. Heard mention of a "asshat weapons license" dam. Left coast is going full commie. Going to be time to move out of state soon..
Are Lancer's L7AWM's generally considered the best or any others i should look at?

[StoneHendge]

JP will give you the full run down on the bolt

http://jprifles.com/1.4.7_Bolt.php?menu_select=HPbolts

The biggest advantage is wind drift. At 500 my 22” grendel pet load (123 Scenar @ 2560) has drop of 56.4” and 10mph drift of 14.6”. My 130gr S’more load (Norma GT with 0.285 G7 @2800) has drop of 42.6 and drift of 11.5, so from the s’mores point of view, grendel has 25% more drift. At the 750 mark, drift is 27.4 vs 35.1. I’ll try to post screen shots tomorrow but I’m in the midst of a 6x45 brass trim-a-thon tonight.

Substitute the new 130 gr Nosler Rdf with G7 of .307 and juice it up ......... (my load is by no means hot -my barrel did 130gr factory Norma match at 2915)

[LRRPF52]

Best deal right now is the LaRue Ultimate Upper Kit Large Frame.

You get a build that was all made under the same roof to actually work together, instead of trying to navigate the minefield of mixing and matching parts that wee never meant to work together.

Choose your barrel length, handguard length, and the 6.5mm and .260 Rem options come with ELGS, plus you get the Tranquillo suppressor option for $399.



I've been through 5 different large frame ARs myself, never shoot them anymore. I kept my GA Precision .260 Remington, but I haven't shot it in probably 3 years now. It's a laser, but brass life is very low, I have to trim cases every firing, and I've struggled with cratered and pierced primers when going up to loads that provide the advantages of the case capacity.

My favorite load is the 130gr Berger over H4350 for flat trajectory and minimal wind drift, which I've used for competition. H4350 is another reason why I don't shoot much anymore, as it has been hard to get for years.

6.5 CM is the way to go due to the vast ammo availability if you're looking at wanting to be able to shoot affordably. Hornady American Gunner prices are such that you can shoot Creedmoor all day now.

One of the main reasons I don't shoot the large frame much anymore is that the receivers feel like I'm carrying a brick, so balance is off compared to an AR15. Muzzle blast and recoil are very similar to .308, so tracking my shot and follow-through are still a bit difficult. It's not as bad with 123gr and 130gr, but 140-147gr are very similar to shooting 147gr 7.62 NATO.

[The Profit Joseph Sith]

Huh. Interesting. Im betting 6mm CM exacerbates the pressure issues even more? Idk. Kinda sounding more and more like i might be in for a .308 instead with heavier rounds. Does 7mm-08 have alot of these same issues in the semi autos? Slightly bummed but no biggie id definitely be alot more bummed if i unloaded all that $ and it didn't work.
So thanks for everyones words of advice i think i might be swayed. Maybe ill just buy a few more saiga drums and call it good.
That LaRue though. *twists mustache*

[centerfire]

The AR308 bolt was designed for 7.62 NATO ammo and chamber. Any modern LR loading and match chamber, regardless of cartridge, will encounter primer flow. Start with a correctly designed bolt and carrier group, such as JP, and you'll be miles ahead.

[Redomen]

I may jut bite on that large frame LaRue this summer when business picks back up