Grendel LMG

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http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/7-general-...post200462

http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/7-general-...post200562

[LRRPF52]

6.5 Grendel on an RPD belt....like they were meant to go together.....

[stanc]

6.5 Grendel on an RPD belt....like they were meant to go together.....

Yes indeed. But, we already knew that from the terrific work done in late 2011 by RangerRick, and his posts on pages 6-7 of this thread.

While it would be great to see a Grendel LMG even if it feeds from RPD belts, to have the slightest chance of being adopted by the US military will require disintegrating links.

[Variable]

http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/7-general-...post200462

http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/7-general-...post200562

Wow! I haven't been paying enough attention to who is making what. I didn't even know they were making those. I started to get excited------ until I saw their prices. Uggh.

[stanc]

Sharky47 reports that he now has "a 6.5 Grendel barrel made and waiting on my personal semi auto [Mk46] to be made/delivered."

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.ph...post549302

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http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2014armaments/W...hipley.pdf

Page 12
7.62mm CT MMG weight 18.0 lbs
600 rds CT ammo weight 23.1 lbs

An FN MK46 in 6.5 Grendel would be about 2 lbs lighter. Ammo weight would be roughly the same if brass cases are used, or significantly less if polymer cases prove feasible.

[LRRPF52]

They need a 6.5mm CT system if the MTBF is as good or better than the PKM. There is no longer a need to have any kind of shackles or compatibility with legacy barrels, chambers, or links, and they are almost at parity for weight with a 7.62 CT system compared to an existing SAW chambered in 5.56 NATO, both with 600rds of ammo.

That means you could have more ammo for 6.5mm than the current 5.56 SAW, with less weight, and more effective range than the 7.62 NATO or PKM, with less volume/bulk than the SAW. With no brass, which is the most expensive component in ammunition, this could really be something if the reliability is there.

Also, the 7.62 SP1D CT case would provide more propellant room, with less OAL than a 5.56 NATO cartridge, so if they optimized a slow-burning propellant and gas system length, we could have a crazy long green projectile with lower chamber pressure, and more mv than anything limited by an AR15 magazine well.

This would be a significant overmatch against existing small arms. Next step is the 21st Century MMG with a .338 or .375 projectile to replace .50 BMG, using a constant recoil operating system.

With the carbine/LMG, it looks like you could issue it to Assaulters/Riflemen, and overmatch combat endurance of legacy enemy systems by over 300%. Logistically, the implications for tactics and doctrine are huge.

[stanc]

It's been a full decade since introduction of 6.5 Grendel. Never mind a belt-fed machine gun, but I thought by now that somebody would've at least built a Grendel automatic rifle. :confused:



[video=youtube;tLX2zauiI38]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLX2zauiI38[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLX2zauiI38

[stanc]

Note comment @ 2:10

[video=youtube;LxRMD1FQjAc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxRMD1FQjAc[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxRMD1FQjAc

[Variable]

It's been a full decade since introduction of 6.5 Grendel. Never mind a belt-fed machine gun, but I thought by now that somebody would've at least built a Grendel automatic rifle. :confused:



[video=youtube;tLX2zauiI38]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLX2zauiI38[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLX2zauiI38

I've got a 5.56 upper but no one will make me a proper 6.5 one.

Well, you and I brought it up multiple times, but I couldn't get an answer from AA. When we posted about it on the old board enough, I finally got the equivalent of a polite "pound sound", but never anything more. After Sabre went tits up I gave up all together.

The Lothar Walther crew emailed back then (when the fur was flying) wanting to make me a barrel, but they obviously weren't making what I needed. They didn't grasp the fact that I needed a heavy chromed bore, and not a "match stainless" tube.

After that, I had hoped that maybe PSA might get FN to make some Grendel tubes with heavy chrome, buuuuuutttt..... Pttthhh! Nope.

The demonstrated lack of any serious attention to the Grendel for military type stuff is why I don't come here much any more. I have three Grendels, a registered auto sear, and suppressors, but this cartridge peaked for me many years ago. I've seen nothing in the way of real advancement, so why bother. I can't take this round very seriously if none of the manufacturers will.

[stanc]

The demonstrated lack of any serious attention to the Grendel for military type stuff is why I don't come here much any more. I have three Grendels, a registered auto sear, and suppressors, but this cartridge peaked for me many years ago. I've seen nothing in the way of real advancement, so why bother. I can't take this round very seriously if none of the manufacturers will.

Chris, I feel the same way.

[Variable]

Maybe if the steel case ammo starts coming in in sizable quantities, it'll help out. It couldn't hurt at least.

[stanc]

[video=youtube;z2Pq4_XdA-k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Pq4_XdA-k[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Pq4_XdA-k



http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/us...w-6-8-spc/

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

[SIZE="3"]In view of the high Ballistic Coefficient of the projectiles used in the 6.5mm Grendel vs the 6.8mm SPC http://mobile.outdoorhistory.com/xmlui/b...equence-54 (Click-on the 6.8x43mm SPC - 6.5mm Grendel cartridge cutaways *) and the resultant superior downrange performance of the Grendel, what's it going to take to change this http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/attachment...ge0422.jpg to effect a M249 SAW in 6.5mm Grendel?

* ETA: Shooting Times, February, 2005, Cooking Up Loads For The 6.5mm Grendel, By David Fortier (5 Pages):
http://mobile.outdoorhistory.com/xmlui/b...equence=52
http://mobile.outdoorhistory.com/xmlui/b...equence=53
http://mobile.outdoorhistory.com/xmlui/b...equence=54
http://mobile.outdoorhistory.com/xmlui/b...equence=55
http://mobile.outdoorhistory.com/xmlui/b...equence=56
[/SIZE]

[stanc]

FYI:

Update on Grendel......

Just waiting on my personal title1 SAW to be delivered. I already made a bolt, extractor, and barrel...

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.ph...post593495

I hope that sharky47 will post future updates here in this forum.

[LRRPF52]

That concrete erasure was awesome. Get a 130gr 6.5mm trucking out of an LMG and we're in business.

I need to get a hold of these guys, as they are in my backyard practically.

[stanc]

In view of the high Ballistic Coefficient of the projectiles used in the 6.5mm Grendel...and the resultant superior downrange performance of the Grendel, what's it going to take to change this http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/attachment...ge0422.jpg to effect a M249 SAW in 6.5mm Grendel?

Not much, I would think. From the MGA site:


[COLOR="blue"]====================

In Seattle during the 2012 NDIA Live Firing Demonstration, the US Machine Gun Armory re-defined the Light Machine Gun category but demonstrating M249 SAW caliber conversion kits for 7.62x51mm and 7.62x39mm calibers.

http://www.machinegunarmory.com/news.html

====================

By just swapping out existing top-covers and a couple of other parts and replacing them with our custom built, patent-pending parts, you can transform your SAW into other 7.62mm calibers.

http://www.machinegunarmory.com/m249modernization.html

====================

The following caliber conversion kits allow ALL types of M249 SAWs worldwide to support the following calibers

7.62x39mm - using RPD cans

http://www.machinegunarmory.com/multicaliber.html

====================[/COLOR]


If they can do 7.62x39 conversions that use RPD belts, it doesn't seem like there should be any technical reason to prevent a 6.5 Grendel conversion using RPD belts.

All it should require is enough $$$$$ and determination.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Companies selling machine guns. . . . God bless America!

[stanc]

Machine Gun Armory has developed a new disintegrating link specifically for the 6.8 SPC round, to allow its use in belt-fed light machine guns... These links, called M68, are made to the same exacting tolerances as M13 & M27 links, but sized for 6.8 SPC ammunition. M68 links also work for 7.62x39 ammunition...

https://mga1-3.myshopify.com/pages/caliber-6-8-spc

I wonder if the M68 links would be usable with 6.5 Grendel?

[BluntForceTrauma]

Not technically feasible.