First response: "Since our chambers and reamers are to SAAMI specifications, this is not considered a defective barrel, so return shipment labels will not be issued out. However, we will adjust the throats free of charge. "
Second message: "Steve had a new reamer made that will scrape the throat deeper. We are offering this free of charge, but I do need to charge return shipment for customers who decide to send their barrel back to us."
"In a world driven by the almighty dollar we strive to make the best product we can at a fair price. Honesty and integrity in all of our dealings is the rule we live by." --- saternmachining.com Home Page.
JA Smith. I have seen posts that the short throat has been the standard for liberty barrels for some time. I would guess that 1000 or so barrels have been made with the short throat. They are all made that way. I would guess it would cost 120,000$ to fix them.
The total might be less when we recognize the reality is that some folks, particularly those that reload, are comfortable with the chamber as made. So, even though it is an inadvertent wildcat they will keep the barrel. We have seen multiple posts to that effect.
There is probably a larger group who don't care and probably don't know.
That's why a reasonable compromise could be to acknowledge that some are smaller than average, and those can be corrected with a SAAMI-spec finishing reamer, 'scraped' or made into another wildcat format.
These guys really need to find a way out of this that allows folks who thought they bought a rifle that will accurately and reliably digest factory ammunition to have one. The alternative chambers and scraped throats might do that. These alternatives will still not be what the contract says when the company stamped "6.5 Grendel" on the barrels.
Satern really needs to find a way to deliver a SAAMI-compliant chamber to those who thought they bought one and want it made right.
Remember once there is a recall there should be no cost to customer. Everyone will jump on the bandwagon. The statement from Satern would read like. We found some chambers in our liberty barrel are not in spec. This could cause high pressure. If you want your barrel inpected we will send a prepaid packaging to return your barrel to us.
02-17-2014, 01:54 AM (This post was last modified: 02-17-2014, 02:06 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY.)
Walter Wrote:. . . We found some chambers in our liberty barrel are not in spec. This could cause high pressure. . . .
This SAFETY DEFECT would have been caught by Quality Control, at a first-rate barrel maker/supplier, and corrected, prior to shipping to the Customer, rendering this issue moot.
This is my response to those that alleged that we can't be using a True Grendel Chamber. Also this comparison barrel was submitted by Walter on the forums. Hopefully this answers some questions.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
All throats are tapered. Most at 1.5 degree.
The Grendel should have a .5 degree to start and then get steeper when it changes to 1.5 degree. It's tough to see a change from .5 to 1.5 degree with a borescope.
Is there any reason why a chamber & throat "go" gage cannot be made by machining a solid or fluted piece of steel to the SAAMI chamber specs (including the compound throat)? Most of the dimensions could be verified with calipers or micrometers, so that should keep skeptics happy.
I suspect that the gage would need to be some amount smaller than the minimum SAAMI dimensions, but this needs to be left up to someone with more smarts and machining experience than me. In fact, if the specs are entered into a CNC machine, several of these could be made quickly and sold to those who want to use them on chambers. I am sure that they would fetch more money as presents for Grendel afficionados (you know who you are ). Think paperweight * ... but I digress
Of course, a chamber reamer could also be used, but I do not know if would be as easy (and inexpensive) as gage above.
Barring a better idea, ink or dykem could be applied to the gage which is then put in the barrel. If it does not bottom out properly, it could be gently spun to determine where the largest defect is.
How can all of the defects be found with one gage? Damned if I know, but someone else might.
No-go gages could be made as well, but the details of the compound throat might pose a problem for a single gage.
- Jim
* Or earrings for someone with really, really strong ears.
Surely one of our forum members has access to a lathe capable of turning to batter than .0005" tolerances?
Make one and see how many offers at what price, then we'll know whether the market will support making a bunch. Barrel makers might want them to be sure their reamers are still in spec after sharpening -- unless they have optical measuring equipment.
BTW, we should consider making a SAAMI 6.5 Grendel and a .264 LBC Throat gauge set. If the Grendel fits, but the .264 Doesn't, then it is probably a Grendel or a tight throat version.
Ok to start I get All my Reamers from Dave at Pacific Tool And Gauge. He has told me there are 3 specifications people go with. The semi auto SAAMI spec. The bolt gun SAAMI spec and their own idea of SAAMI spec. I just buy reamers for all my calibers from him and re ream my chambers after I clean and polish them before I put them on a receiver.
tangodown Wrote:Ok to start I get All my Reamers from Dave at Pacific Tool And Gauge. He has told me there are 3 specifications people go with. The semi auto SAAMI spec. The bolt gun SAAMI spec and their own idea of SAAMI spec. I just buy reamers for all my calibers from him and re ream my chambers after I clean and polish them before I put them on a receiver.
What? Is this true? That the proprietor of PTG believes there are two distinct SAAMI specs for this calibre; 'semi auto' and 'bolt gun'. I get that the third scenario is a bespoke reamer so a non-issue but your post implies the customer talking to PTG and both agreeing to alter what is a single standard industry spec based on their expectation of the type of action it's going into.
Yes, just ask Dave about semi auto spec and bolt gun spec. Semi auto has to be at the top of SAAMI spec ( loose) to be loaded and extracted over and over again at a fast rate. Bolt gun spec is loaded with you cramming the round in by hand and its going to be tight. To tight for semi auto. So its going to be at bottom of SAAMI spec. Now there are some companies that take it upon themselves to do different run outs, throats, or lead. Thats from the neck of the case out to the groves and landings. That's where it gets Fu$%# up. Some companies give you no room, some give you a lot. That's where this device comes into play.
04-12-2018, 03:45 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2018, 03:59 PM by LRRPF52.)
tangodown Wrote:Ok to start I get All my Reamers from Dave at Pacific Tool And Gauge. He has told me there are 3 specifications people go with. The semi auto SAAMI spec. The bolt gun SAAMI spec and their own idea of SAAMI spec. I just buy reamers for all my calibers from him and re ream my chambers after I clean and polish them before I put them on a receiver.
I personally will go to Manson or JGS instead, or one of the European tool makers.
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6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
So has anyone ever ordered custom reamers and sizing dies at the same time from a manufacture? If so did they ever ask you what u wanted on the lead and the dimensions? I have made my own wild cat cartridges and I had a say in the entire print from start to finish. In the end I had reamers, sizing dies, and case gauges all made at the same time off of the same reamers they made for my chamber. Just wondering? I know you guys know what you are talking about. Just seeing how far you have gone in doing so. NO DISRESPECT INTENDED!! That's for all the hate that will follow.
