Anyone hear of Grendel II using a 6.5x47 Laupa throat?

[Tedward]

Tedward, your post is lacking some very important details. You didn't indicate what projectile that is in the picture. Could you elaborate on that?

Also, what is that terribly thick black substance you coated the projectile with? Is it paint by any chance, because I can see it gummed up in front of the neck.

Out of all the Magic marker or Dykem coated pills I've seen over the years, that is the strangest one to date. It actually looks a little bit like tar. Is everybody seeing the same thing I am? It's extremely dull and matte-like in texture, for starters.

Don't bother deleting it, it's already saved along with a screenshot of your post, with the barrel that is missing some key details that those of us with AA barrels will recognize right off the bat. Is that flat black or matte paint by the way? You'll want to thoroughly clean that chamber and throat from whatever godawful substance that is, because it looks really thick. I can see a built up ring of whatever it is gummed up around the neck, and it appears to be at least several hundredths, if not a tenth of an inch.

Wow, the first you have really had a defensive post since all of this.

It is a factory Hornady 123gr A-max or SST. It is one I had on the bench I was checking a week or so ago and wanted to just try the locking of the bolt.

I used some anodizing paint that was sitting there becuase I wasn't trying to make anything look pritty, just wanted to see exactly what it shows. The material has noting to do with the results. Yes it looks gummy but that isn't relevant. Thanks for the concern and what product should I clean that god awful substance with, tar remover??? I think I can handle it.

And I won't delete it, I don't work that way! I will however since you are so involved now, test with some factory AA Lapua Scenar and Hornady SST's and A-max and mark them with your preferred making material and I'll clean the chamber thoroughly to get better pictures.

It just amazes me how you come off when AA Barrel came into the picture and nothing like this when it was a Liberty barrel. i think enough said on that.

Just wanted to be informative and not partial to any manufacture. I have tested, Liberty, Lilja, Brownells and AA now.

[Tedward]

No I didn't. I'll check later today when I get back and use a sharpy or go by my LGS and see if they have some Dykem as LRRPF52 recommends.

I really am not looking to poke in the eye, just wanted to show the markings and how the bullet reacted the same when the bolt was pushed and locked. I'll have more pictures later today. just trying to be informative, not controversial. I will shoot it with no worries.

[Tedward]

Do we understand that this is a barrel stamped AA but purchased through a private party? answered to bwaites

1) Have you contacted AA for clarification?

2) With respect, you seem awful fast to condemn the barrel without giving the 3) manufacturer a chance to examine or correct.

1) I haven't contacted AA, it was 9:00 last night and when I called the other day about my Beowulf ammo order they still haven't called me back, sent e-mails too, still no response.

2) I got the barrel at 12 noon and waited till I had time and is so happened to be 9:00 I got to it, then posted at 11:00, what is fast? And why does it matter??

3) I don't think anyone sent there barrel's to Satern, took one to PF, and no I wont send it to them. That isn't the point, I don't think there is an issue. I'm going to call a few people local here to evaluate some things, not for you but for me and my piece of mind.

[keystone183]

Good cop/bad cop routine........I LOVE IT!!!

[pinzgauer]

So just Liberty or has no one done this that has a AA Barrel? I bought the barrel because I had been wanting one and the opportunity arose right here on the forum.

I've done this with AA, J&T (Wilson) and J&T (shaw) barrels, and it looks nothing like your photo. You should see land marks way before the cannelure, if at all.

But I use sharpie as a poor man's dykem. If you used paint it's probably too thick and malleable.

If you cannot chamber a factory Hornady 123g AMAX or SST round without the bullet sticking, then you have a defective barrel. (My read)

And the factory ammo shoots so well that I set my reload length to match, and get excellent accuracy with flawless reliability. (I shoot mostly the 123 AMAX & SST, along with some nosler blems)

[JASmith]

1) I haven't contacted AA, it was 9:00 last night and when I called the other day about my Beowulf ammo order they still haven't called me back, sent e-mails too, still no response.

2) I got the barrel at 12 noon and waited till I had time and is so happened to be 9:00 I got to it, then posted at 11:00, what is fast? And why does it matter??

3) I don't think anyone sent there barrel's to Satern, took one to PF, and no I wont send it to them. That isn't the point, I don't think there is an issue. I'm going to call a few people local here to evaluate some things, not for you but for me and my piece of mind.

You might want to reconsider the statement I highlighted in red. First, a number of people have sent barrels to Satern for correction. The issue there is whether the correction results in a chamber corresponding to the SAAMI specification.

One could ask why you plan to not contact the manufacturer of this barrel? If you have indeed discovered a flaw, then that company must be given a chance to examine and correct.

Every manufacturer has the odd defect. That is the nature of manufacturing. The relative frequency of defects, and the manufacturer's willingness to correct them, is a more appropriate focus.

I am also very uncomfortable your comment about 'push-back' by LRRPF in post #117 odf this thread. He has posted questions of this nature many times and getting the underlying details of an apparent problem should always be the first step in troubleshooting. There have been plenty of discussions about the materials that should be used for these fit checks. Posting a picture of a bullet with tar-like substance that might be a half mill or a mil thick, if the photo is accurate, leads folks to speculate about one's knowledge or intent. A picture of a barrel purported to be one manufacturer but that looks very different from normal production also raises questions that need to be resolved before troubleshooting. Your comment about 'push back' indicates more of a confrontational approach than one of trying to explore and resolve an issue.

[Tedward]

My comment #3 was referring to nobody sent a barrel it to be investigated that had a short throat. A few people sent them in to be "scraped" or what ever they had done. I didn't send anything so I don't want to speculate what they requested to have done.

Truthfully I don't think I need to talk to AA, I don't think there is an issue. The previous owner had no issues with it. At least that I'm aware of. He can attest to that.

[keystone183]

My comment #3 was referring to nobody sent a barrel it to be investigated that had a short throat. A few people sent them in to be "scraped" or what ever they had done. I didn't send anything so I don't want to speculate what they requested to have done.

Let's cut all the BS. You playing these word games on purpose? They sent them in to be "scraped", WHY? Anybody recall?

[FlatsFlite]

Let's cut all the BS. You playing these word games on purpose? They sent them in to be "scraped", WHY? Anybody recall?

Oh ... I know. Because the chambers were short.

What do I win?

* a scraped barrel from Satern any day now.

[LRRPF52]

Wow, the first you have really had a defensive post since all of this.

It is a factory Hornady 123gr A-max or SST. It is one I had on the bench I was checking a week or so ago and wanted to just try the locking of the bolt.

I used some anodizing paint that was sitting there becuase I wasn't trying to make anything look pritty, just wanted to see exactly what it shows. The material has noting to do with the results. Yes it looks gummy but that isn't relevant. Thanks for the concern and what product should I clean that god awful substance with, tar remover??? I think I can handle it.

And I won't delete it, I don't work that way! I will however since you are so involved now, test with some factory AA Lapua Scenar and Hornady SST's and A-max and mark them with your preferred making material and I'll clean the chamber thoroughly to get better pictures.

It just amazes me how you come off when AA Barrel came into the picture and nothing like this when it was a Liberty barrel. i think enough said on that.

Just wanted to be informative and not partial to any manufacture. I have tested, Liberty, Lilja, Brownells and AA now.

I see nothing but red flags here, which is a continuing trend really. I mean, how do you not know whether the cartridge you used has a 123gr A-MAX or a 123gr SST seated in it? It's pretty obvious to even someone who knows nothing about firearms that the two are different upon a casual observation. You have to be doing this to provoke us, as I can see no other rational explanation, unless there is something truly deficient going on that is a legitimate issue that is beyond the scope of this forum and our ability to help in that regard. If you have terrible eyesight, for example, then please forgive me for coming across as harsh.

You used anodizing paint? It has clearly built up a significant layer of material that is obvious in the picture. Do you honestly not see how that would skew the results? It is very relevant to seating depth if you coat the bullet in a thick substance, unlike Magic marker or Dykem, which go on super thin. I have no advice to give on how to remove anodizing paint from your chamber, as I have to say that I've never seen it done before.

Maybe you have a legitimate memory loss problem too, as I have responded to people expressing concerns with the Liberty barrels having short throats for well over a year now, dating back to at least FMSniper's experience, if not earlier. If that amazes you, we must have different definitions of what the word "amaze" means.

You "just wanted to be informative", but failed to mention the projectile used, which we still don't know, used a very thick substance to coat the as of yet unidentified projectile, without being partial to any manufacture®, but immediately concluded that this AA barrel "has the same problem". Roger that. You've had what could easily appear to be an agenda to malign AA since joining the site, whether it is delivery times, product availability, product condition, disregard for product assembly, and now this.

Something is seriously awry here.

[jluck]

The whole issue here is not a company screw up its there willingness to correct and candor. That is where satern fell short. Even if you pay them to fix there problem they only change it "there way" insted of giving people what they bought. Why is that so hard for some too see?

And calling AA will get you nowhere more than likely. There customer service email link doesn't even work any longer nor have they answered there phone when I tried anyhow.

[Bill Alexander]

I apologize we can be a little difficult to contact due to the volume of traffic and our limited number of telephone lines.

I have just checked the customer service link on the contact us page of the web site and it seems to be functioning correctly.

Part of manufacturing is that on occasions an item may not be perfect. If this is the case then it is the duty of the manufacturer to look at said item and rectify any problems found. I do not recognize the barrel in the picture but it may have been re-profiled as well as fluted. Regardless there is no drama in examining it and if needed turning a reamer in the chamber. Why would one not help a fellow shooter out?

Dykem is a layout fluid and as such creates a film thickness albeit somewhat less than paint. For fit up the best solution is engineering blue which is solvent based, and is rubbed into the surface with a soft cloth. For projectiles in the absence of engineers blue, paint will rarely suffice.

[bwaites]

A couple days ago I said I was going to close this unless someone gave me good evidence of a reason to keep it open. I'm not sure that has happened.

But multiple people brought new issues to the thread, and it is more than confusing now.

I'm going to close this, simply because there is so much going on here and so much overlapping that anyone trying to read it from page 1 couldn't help but be confused.

I am opening a new thread, called "Barrels and Chambers".

I will try to briefly condense the essence of this thread, and if anyone feels that they need to embellish my post, or add things I missed, please do so in a respectful manner.

I will leave this open until I get that thread posted, however, in case someone has some brilliant observation that needs to be made!

[babaganoush]

...
Part of manufacturing is that on occasions an item may not be perfect. If this is the case then it is the duty of the manufacturer to look at said item and rectify any problems found. I do not recognize the barrel in the picture but it may have been re-profiled as well as fluted. Regardless there is no drama in examining it and if needed turning a reamer in the chamber. Why would one not help a fellow shooter out?

Dykem is a layout fluid and as such creates a film thickness albeit somewhat less than paint. For fit up the best solution is engineering blue which is solvent based, and is rubbed into the surface with a soft cloth. For projectiles in the absence of engineers blue, paint will rarely suffice.

+1

And that, folks, is how it is supposed to happen.

[Tedward]

Let's cut all the BS. You playing these word games on purpose? They sent them in to be "scraped", WHY? Anybody recall?

If it had a short throat they could have asked it to be re-reamed with the Grendel reamer. If they wanted to go to the Grendel II is a longer throat they are offering. I have some of there barrels and I don't think they are short throats and shoot fine. If it hit like the one I just got from AA, I don't know if that's right or wrong but apparently it works without pressure signs.

[keystone183]

If it had a short throat they could have asked it to be re-reamed with the Grendel reamer. If they wanted to go to the Grendel II is a longer throat they are offering. I have some of there barrels and I don't think they are short throats and shoot fine. If it hit like the one I just got from AA, I don't know if that's right or wrong but apparently it works without pressure signs.

Per Saturn.....no problems with original barrel. Can ream with our 'new and improved' if neccesary.

Or we forgot all about this?

[keystone183]

Why the continued revisionist history?

[JASmith]

If it had a short throat they could have asked it to be re-reamed with the Grendel reamer. If they wanted to go to the Grendel II is a longer throat they are offering. I have some of there barrels and I don't think they are short throats and shoot fine. If it hit like the one I just got from AA, I don't know if that's right or wrong but apparently it works without pressure signs.

Ted,

Posts like this try folks' patience and make some of us see red. I know you have read the multitude of posts describing Satern's protest that all their throats are SAAMI compliant. Even their announcement on the home page continues this protest and says only that they will convert an existing chamber to the Grendel II. That is the ONLY corrective action offered.

Comments like this lead well-mannered folks to speculate about memory or cognitive issues and the less charitable among us to think about intentional pot stirring.

PS My apologies to the moderator -- my post may have been less than "brilliant" but I posted anyway...

[BluntForceTrauma]

I thought the CSS was like the PPC with the shoulder blown forward to the same place as the Grendel but had a tighter neck and typical throat.

Nope. Even Alexander Arms' ".26 Grendel" (see Shotgun News, Sept. 2003) was still, basically, a 6.5 PPC. It didn't get its "Grendel" shoulder until the Finns at Lapua got hold of it. I believe David Fortier has the definitive history and, yes, I was there from ALMOST the beginning.

John

P.S. Yes, I'm very proud of my Finnish ancestry, thank you very much!

[bwaites]

Closed