Anyone hear of Grendel II using a 6.5x47 Laupa throat?

[BjornF16]

Well, in point of fact, it has long been acknowledged that any attention is good for business. This applies especially to politics and people with axes to grind. It draws attention to "The Cause", as it were. As far as I am concerned, JASmith, ignore it. Let them play at king of the hill on a different hill. Craig has already proven to this reader that he has long since made up his mind, and cannot be bothered with facts, true or otherwise. Further, pointing out his misunderstandings has only strengthened his belief that there is a conspiracy afoot.

I would like to bring up a potentially relevant quote: “Never argue with a fool, for onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” ~ Mark Twain.

I like this quote. I had already made up my mind to just ignore, but this seals it. Let it wither...we can discuss on this forum as I'm sure that "interested parties" still troll here.

[rickOshay]

And my favorite Jonathan Swift quote: "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."

[BjornF16]

Arne was shooting a 6.5 in PPC brass long before Bill but it was more like the 264LBC. It had a .291 neck diameter and typical throat. I had 2 of them. Arne was the first to shoot a 6.5 in a PPC case but it was not a "Grendel"
This is Arne's 6.5 reamer drawing from 1998.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/cu...rennan.jpg

No compound angle on that throat.

Was this prior to Arne's collaborating with Bill Alexander?

Arne stated on the msrhunt forum that the 6.5 CSS has the same compound throat as Grendel...which one developed the compound throat?

[JASmith]

The guys that did the .303 British and other similar throats in military cartridges. Bill simply borrowed the notion and worked it for the Grendel.

Last I heard, the CSS chamber is held as a proprietary item. Arne may or may not be privy to the details, but most of us don't have access to independently verify.

[BjornF16]

The guys that did the .303 British and other similar throats in military cartridges. Bill simply borrowed the notion and worked it for the Grendel.

Last I heard, the CSS chamber is held as a proprietary item. Arne may or may not be privy to the details, but most of us don't have access to independently verify.

I took Arne at his word...

from msrhunt.com - TX65

Bjorn

The 6.5 CSS chamber did in fact have the compound angle through just like the AA Chamber. The only difference between the 6.5 CSS chamber the AA chamber is neck diameter - .295" for the 6.5 CSS and .300" for the AA Chamber.

Every rifle / upper built by Competition Shooting Sports had the 6.5 CSS chamber from July 2004 until I sold the company in 2007.

Actually, my original 6.5 AR I built in 1998 had a .291 neck chamber, the throat was kept secret.

Arne

BTW, I note that he links the throat as being part of the chamber...I wonder if Craig caught that or not?...LOL

...and it looks like the 1998 6.5 PPC isn't much of a secret anymore.

[JASmith]

Thanks for the clarification.

You have good reason for taking Arne at his word. I did not realize (or remember?) his connection to CSS.

[Tedward]

I took Arne at his word...




BTW, I note that he links the throat as being part of the chamber...I wonder if Craig caught that or not?...LOL

...and it looks like the 1998 6.5 PPC isn't much of a secret anymore.

Quote from Arne: Actually, my original 6.5 AR I built in 1998 had a .291 neck chamber, the throat was kept secret.

Arne

See it was such a well kept secret even Steve Satern doesn't know. Maybe that is why Steve said what he did, there keeping him in the dark.
These guy's just need to play nicer....

[woohoo]

No compound angle on that throat.

Was this prior to Arne's collaborating with Bill Alexander?

Arne stated on the msrhunt forum that the 6.5 CSS has the same compound throat as Grendel...which one developed the compound throat?

Arne's 6.5PPC was before Bill started on the 6.5 project.
The 2 6.5CSS I had did not look like they had a compound throat. I think both were made around 2003-2004. I thought the CSS was like the PPC with the shoulder blown forward to the same place as the Grendel but had a tighter neck and typical throat.
I heard it was Lothar Walthers idea to do a compound throat to give Bill what he wanted and still give Arne a short throat that would work for the long high BC match bullets but that came from LW's mouth in the states

[JASmith]

I continue to be amazed at how many 'fathers' good ideas have.

I surmise the Grendel, like any other serious design, has roots from a multitude of sources. This means that most, possibly the vast majority, of claims about who did the Grendel design have elements of truth to them.

But, is not also true that the mark of a good designer is the ability to borrow and adapt things that work to create something new and better?

[BjornF16]

I continue to be amazed at how many 'fathers' good ideas have.

I surmise the Grendel, like any other serious design, has roots from a multitude of sources. This means that most, possibly the vast majority, of claims about who did the Grendel design have elements of truth to them.

But, is not also true that the mark of a good designer is the ability to borrow and adapt things that work to create something new and better?

XCR is claiming Arne is the "actual creator of the Grendel".

He doesn't seem to understand complicated things...as far as I can tell, there is a lot to the development of the Grendel with credit amongst several individuals, not just one.

I wasn't around the Grendel until 2008 time frame...so I don't really know the history between Arne and Bill A.

[JASmith]

The design was also influenced by Lapua engineers. From what I understand, the Lapua contribution helped bring the Grendel to its final design.

[Tedward]

I continue to be amazed at how many 'fathers' good ideas have.

I surmise the Grendel, like any other serious design, has roots from a multitude of sources. This means that most, possibly the vast majority, of claims about who did the Grendel design have elements of truth to them.

But, is not also true that the mark of a good designer is the ability to borrow and adapt things that work to create something new and better?

Everything is amazing. I just got my AA Barrel I bought Friday on this form. It came today.

Here are the measurements using the same technique and the same Hornady case gauge setup. Inserted into the chamber then eased into the throat that isn't. Till resistance was felt, then removed the case gauge and the bullet was still attached, 2.195. Then the second measurement I pushed a little harder and I could feel the same thing as my Liberty barrels, there was a little jump thru the Cannelure. I tightened the measuring rod and pulled it back, the bullet got stuck and came free by tapping the barrel on the bench. Inserted the bullet into the gauge and it measured 2.255.

Then I took the factory round with the same marking material as I used on the Liberty. Stuck it in the chamber and it used a .135 bolt, pushed till I could lock it and it took pressure to do so. Removed the bolt and the bullet would not come out. I tapped and hit then pounded the barrel on the bench with the barrel extension down and the bullet would not come out. The bullet got stuck and had to be hit it out with the cleaning rod. See the marks on the bullet, the exact same as the Liberty barrel.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4675[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]4676[/ATTACH]

So just Liberty or has no one done this that has a AA Barrel? I bought the barrel because I had been wanting one and the opportunity arose right here on the forum.

[BjornF16]

Tedward

Did you clean the barrel once you received it, or did you start taking measurements first?

I never had a problem with my AA Shaw barrel...

[Tedward]

Tedward

Did you clean the barrel once you received it, or did you start taking measurements first?

I never had a problem with my AA Shaw barrel...

I didn't do anything, it looks pretty clean and a dirty barrel would not do that. No dirt issue. I think its just the way the compound throat is. I am more so thinking that the other manufactures are doing like it has been insinuated, using the high side of Saami or the .264LBC.

Now I don't believe anything and I'm going shooting like I have been. Everything I have seen worked EXCEPT the bolts from the Fishing Real Company made and sold Satern.

Not to say there was a bad barrel that Walter had or even a few, but the pictures I just posted I think is what everyone is jumping all over Satern about and AA has the same thing. Now do some Guy's have AA barrels that don't do that? Why? I have no clue. But if AA did it, then what is right and what is wrong.....

[bwaites]

I didn't do anything, it looks pretty clean and a dirty barrel would not do that. No dirt issue. I think its just the way the compound throat is. I am more so thinking that the other manufactures are doing like it has been insinuated, using the high side of Saami or the .264LBC.

Now I don't believe anything and I'm going shooting like I have been. Everything I have seen worked EXCEPT the bolts from the Fishing Real Company made and sold Satern.

Not to say there was a bad barrel that Walter had or even a few, but the pictures I just posted I think is what everyone is jumping all over Satern about and AA has the same thing. Now do some Guy's have AA barrels that don't do that? Why? I have no clue. But if AA did it, then what is right and what is wrong.....

When was the barrel originally sold?

[NugginFutz]

I guess things are too quiet at the "other place". XCR is crowing and cross linking to the board to show everyone an AA barrel might have a problem. Dear Lord! What are we to do? (That didn't take long at all!)

[JASmith]

Everything is amazing. I just got my AA Barrel I bought Friday on this form. It came today.

Here are the measurements using the same technique and the same Hornady case gauge setup. Inserted into the chamber then eased into the throat that isn't. Till resistance was felt, then removed the case gauge and the bullet was still attached, 2.195. Then the second measurement I pushed a little harder and I could feel the same thing as my Liberty barrels, there was a little jump thru the Cannelure. I tightened the measuring rod and pulled it back, the bullet got stuck and came free by tapping the barrel on the bench. Inserted the bullet into the gauge and it measured 2.255.

Then I took the factory round with the same marking material as I used on the Liberty. Stuck it in the chamber and it used a .135 bolt, pushed till I could lock it and it took pressure to do so. Removed the bolt and the bullet would not come out. I tapped and hit then pounded the barrel on the bench with the barrel extension down and the bullet would not come out. The bullet got stuck and had to be hit it out with the cleaning rod. See the marks on the bullet, the exact same as the Liberty barrel.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4675[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]4676[/ATTACH]

So just Liberty or has no one done this that has a AA Barrel? I bought the barrel because I had been wanting one and the opportunity arose right here on the forum.

Thanks jmsdad!!

Do we understand that this is a barrel stamped AA but purchased through a private party?

Have you contacted AA for clarification?

With respect, you seem awful fast to condemn the barrel without giving the manufacturer a chance to examine or correct.

[LRRPF52]

Tedward, your post is lacking some very important details. You didn't indicate what projectile that is in the picture. Could you elaborate on that?

Also, what is that terribly thick black substance you coated the projectile with? Is it paint by any chance, because I can see it gummed up in front of the neck.

Out of all the Magic marker or Dykem coated pills I've seen over the years, that is the strangest one to date. It actually looks a little bit like tar. Is everybody seeing the same thing I am? It's extremely dull and matte-like in texture, for starters.



Don't bother deleting it, it's already saved along with a screenshot of your post, with the barrel that is missing some key details that those of us with AA barrels will recognize right off the bat. Is that flat black or matte paint by the way? You'll want to thoroughly clean that chamber and throat from whatever godawful substance that is, because it looks really thick. I can see a built up ring of whatever it is gummed up around the neck, and it appears to be at least several hundredths, if not a tenth of an inch.

[Sputnik]

Tedward, Can you see 5 evenly spaced land marks on the projectile?

[Tedward]

When was the barrel originally sold?

Here is what I was told when it was purchased:

I received the complete upper from AA Jan 2013. I can't warm up to the AA composite handguard so I took it apart and had the barrel fluted by ADCO. A new Midwest Industries gen2 10" handguard was installed.

So it must have been made in 2012.