Anyone hear of Grendel II using a 6.5x47 Laupa throat?

[Tedward]

I think someone else had less than 30 minutes. Sometimes its ok to be 2nd.

Just reading a trend "over there" from a guy name "Iceman13". Here is what he posted:
[Quote:]
"For years barrel manufactures have been silently dropping the Alexander Arms compound throat and moving to the Lapua throat. Many on the Grendel forum are already using the Grendel II without even knowing it because they are sold as 6.5 Grendels by multiple manufactures. You know that recent Lilja barrel buy on the 65grendel forum? Nice barrels guess what they are using the 6.5mmX47 throat. Not just them either."

If this is the case, aren't those manufacturers misleading their buyers? If they are, and somebody recognizes it, won't they be liable in a lawsuit? Worse yet, would anyone ever trust them to make a SAAMI specific chamber of any type? If they were a SAAMI member, wouldn't they be subject to discipline? Something doesn't ring right about that statement. I've been over to the other board, and all I see are people just asking to have the chamber that they paid for. Seems like that is reasonable.
[end quote]"

The first paragraph is one of my questions. The barrels that have throats that can push bullets out to 2.340, do they even have a compounded throat? I am not sure who is following SAAMI. There really doesn't seem to be a particular number that anyone seems to conform to. The chamber, yes, but if PF, Lilja or any barrel manufacture all have different bullet seating depths, what is right and who is doing the correct thing? I'm just confused because there isn't any easy way to say if something is right or wrong, unless its a short throat then you know. When is the throat too long?.

And the end of the second paragraph, I think this is what everyone is asking for...

[explorecaves]

I would like to see proof that others are using a different throat and not just some claim by "Iceman13"….….

[BjornF16]

I would like to see proof that others are using a different throat and not just some claim by "Iceman13"….….

Iceman13 was apparently quoting something the former XCR (known as msrhunt on "that other" forum) said, then challenging him on it. It is a continuation of XCR's assertions here before he got himself banned (...and now he takes great satisfaction in banning some of us...LOL)

[Tedward]

I would like to see proof that others are using a different throat and not just some claim by "Iceman13"….….

I guess thats what I'm asking, how can you prove anything, just saying. If you can use the Case Gauge and push a 123SST out to 2.341 and factory is 2.242, then that is an awful lot of jump. Is that right? Just wondering. I was talking to a long range shooter and he said it should not be over .030 from the lands. That means a factory load will not be as accurate as the hand load that is push out.

Sort of good for one, hand loaders, and not the next, factory.

[NugginFutz]

Iceman13 was apparently quoting something the former XCR (known as msrhunt on "that other" forum) said, then challenging him on it. It is a continuation of XCR's assertions here before he got himself banned (...and now he takes great satisfaction in banning some of us...LOL)

+1

Iceman was quoting the person formerly known as XCR, who did assert that opinion in his own sand box.

[Tedward]

+1

Iceman was quoting the person formerly known as XCR, who did assert that opinion in his own sand box.

ok, just went to the other side and saw that. I'm just going to watch TV, to much crap of who knows whats right, let me know if you guys find the answers to my post #63. Gota go...

[NugginFutz]

Good plan. This topic is wasting too much bandwidth, as it is.

[JASmith]

This is the 6.5 grendel reamer from PTG.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4664[/ATTACH]

Bingo!

The lines of the throat are consistent with SAAMI. SAAMI tolerances are -0.00" to +0.002" while PTG uses + - 0.001" for the tolerance. In theory, this would mean that half of the reamers produced would be smaller than the SAAMI spec.

In reality, the propensity to cut tight chambers means that a larger fraction of the throats end up being too tight.

Has anyone pointed this out to PTG?

[BjornF16]

Somebody needs to post this on msrhunt forum in response to the "Arne Brennan is the real developer of Grendel" comment

"Brennan and Alexander Arms compared notes and worked together to produce the resulting cartridge, the 6.5 Grendel. Alexander Arms contracted with Lapua to finalize the specifications and to produce the brass. Brass and loaded ammunition are now available." - http://www.6mmbr.com/65grendel.html

[wiersy111]

Oh how I wish I could!

[45r]

I guess thats what I'm asking, how can you prove anything, just saying. If you can use the Case Gauge and push a 123SST out to 2.341 and factory is 2.242, then that is an awful lot of jump. Is that right? Just wondering. I was talking to a long range shooter and he said it should not be over .030 from the lands. That means a factory load will not be as accurate as the hand load that is push out.

Sort of good for one, hand loaders, and not the next, factory.

I think the barrels,uppers and rifles from AA won't go any or much farther then 30 thou past factory spec since they're reamed with Dave Manson reamers.
His reamers don't have +- 1 thou like PTG.
I think his are 0 to +2 thou and the throat doesn't come out too short or too long since his reamers are usually pretty close to 0 and near perfect.

[JASmith]

Somebody needs to post this on msrhunt forum in response to the "Arne Brennan is the real developer of Grendel" comment

"Brennan and Alexander Arms compared notes and worked together to produce the resulting cartridge, the 6.5 Grendel. Alexander Arms contracted with Lapua to finalize the specifications and to produce the brass. Brass and loaded ammunition are now available." - http://www.6mmbr.com/65grendel.html

First question: "How many people do the forum statistics tell us are actually reading the forum?

Second question: "How many people are posting?"

A small number answer to the first suggests that the audience isn't large enough to do serious damage.

A small number answer to the second question suggests that the discerning reader will quickly realize that the forum membership is a small number of people talking to each other.

There is still short and long term damage to the Grendel and some of us who dispute the falsehoods but will it be enough to be worth the effort to fight it?

[NugginFutz]

Well, in point of fact, it has long been acknowledged that any attention is good for business. This applies especially to politics and people with axes to grind. It draws attention to "The Cause", as it were. As far as I am concerned, JASmith, ignore it. Let them play at king of the hill on a different hill. XCR has already proven to this reader that he has long since made up his mind, and cannot be bothered with facts, true or otherwise. Further, pointing out his misunderstandings has only strengthened his belief that there is a conspiracy afoot.

I would like to bring up a potentially relevant quote: “Never argue with a fool, for onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” ~ Mark Twain.

[JASmith]

I imagine I have been on both sides of that Twain quote at least once or twice in my lifetime!

Thanks for the advice!

[KentuckyBuddha]

If you figure you have never...it would be the surest sign you have...and probably frequently.

[Tedward]

I think the barrels,uppers and rifles from AA won't go any or much farther then 30 thou past factory spec since they're reamed with Dave Manson reamers.
His reamers don't have +- 1 thou like PTG.
I think his are 0 to +2 thou and the throat doesn't come out too short or too long since his reamers are usually pretty close to 0 and near perfect.

I have an AA barrel in the mail, I will take the measurements as soon as it arrives and be able to compare all of them I have. Even with my findings, it still won't help prove, confirm or make anything right or wrong. Just posting the numbers from each manufacture would be nice for everyone to know what they will get if they buy a barrel from manufacture "X", "Y" or "Z".
Then if they plan to hand load heavy bullets, buy barrel "Y". Load light pills, use barrel "Z" and if you want to use factory ammo, buy barrel "X". It seems there is a big variation in bullet seating depths so once it is identified who makes what, we will see where the line forms and who is going to be back ordered and wait for there desired barrel manufactures product. And $$ will play into that also.

[Slappy]

Specs are specs and anytime anyone or anything messes with specs usually it does not end up good. Especially when you mess with them and it really does not work. If I decide to use reloads some day that I load myself I fully expect my rifle to fire them without any problems as long as I my self stay with in specs, if it does not then I am going to be upset. BANG BANG!!!!!!

[PigOPs]

Still... I'd like to see the primers on XCRs factory ammo. I'd bet a shiny nickel they are showing signs of pressure.

[woohoo]

Somebody needs to post this on msrhunt forum in response to the "Arne Brennan is the real developer of Grendel" comment

"Brennan and Alexander Arms compared notes and worked together to produce the resulting cartridge, the 6.5 Grendel. Alexander Arms contracted with Lapua to finalize the specifications and to produce the brass. Brass and loaded ammunition are now available." - http://www.6mmbr.com/65grendel.html

Arne was shooting a 6.5 in PPC brass long before Bill but it was more like the 264LBC. It had a .291 neck diameter and typical throat. I had 2 of them. Arne was the first to shoot a 6.5 in a PPC case but it was not a "Grendel"
This is Arne's 6.5 reamer drawing from 1998.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/cu...rennan.jpg

[Tedward]

Still... I'd like to see the primers on XCRs factory ammo. I'd bet a shiny nickel they are showing signs of pressure.

Who cares, stop rolling in the mud. Just thought that was funny, mud, pig .....but really, we can't keep digging in the crap pile or we can't move forward.