ar stoner issues

[500]

Has anyone just sent there barrel back for a refund? Looks like there policy is if it hasn't been used you can return it for a refund within 60 days.

[moobthoj707]

i think short n sassy did. i am debating whether i should send my back for refund and get a lilja or send it to mark to get the throat correct because saturn is soooooooo slow on this issue. i have to make a decision soon. my 60 days from midway are almost up.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

500, moobthoj707,

I returned my AR-Stoner Barrel and Bolt AR-15 6.5 Grendel Medium M4 Contour 1 in 8" Twist 16" Stainless Steel to MidwayUSA, and have already received a full Refund (including return shipping charges). I have no problem with MidwayUSA. However, the response to our 6.5 Grendel Community (read: utter lack of) by the barrel supplier leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least.

This has been a learning experience, an unwitting participant in a trial and error game, one that I don't wish to repeat http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...6.5G/page5 (See Reply #46).

[Lead Chucker]

I have at least one barrel im going to try to send back to Satern to have the throat reamed.

[Trock03]

Sent mine back last week and got my email notification and full refund yesterday. Midway is great to deal with. Before sending mine back I ordered the 18" barrel/bolt from Brownells so that I could compare them. The bolts were identical and the barrels appeared to come from the same place based on markings (the Brownells barrel is a lighter profile). The Brownells barrel chambered the same ammo with little effort that the AR Stoner barrel wouldn't with a lot of effort.

[Tedward]

Sent mine back last week and got my email notification and full refund yesterday. Midway is great to deal with. Before sending mine back I ordered the 18" barrel/bolt from Brownells so that I could compare them. The bolts were identical and the barrels appeared to come from the same place based on markings (the Brownells barrel is a lighter profile). The Brownells barrel chambered the same ammo with little effort that the AR Stoner barrel wouldn't with a lot of effort.

Do you have a depth gauge? Can you check the depth of the bolt? HS Depth .135? OAL of the bolt 2.810?

[500]

Great! I have never dealt with them on returns but I did send mine back yesterday.

[Trock03]

Tedward - I don't have a depth gauge but it's on my current "things to buy" list. Bolt OAL is 2.810. I don't have an accurate way of measuring HS depth but eyeballing calipers with the extractor removed I get .134 give or take a thousandth. Have gotten some buddies to do the same thing to get a fresh set of eyes on it and they've had the same results.

Brownells doesn't want to part with the manufacturer but almost everything, including packaging was nearly identical to the AR Stoner barrel.

[Tedward]

If your getting .134 +/- then its not the .130. Also if its 2.810, it is a Grendel bolt with the extra .010 added to the tail for the .010 depth on the bolt. Sounds like your good on the bolt.

[tango29]

Has anyone just sent there barrel back for a refund? Looks like there policy is if it hasn't been used you can return it for a refund within 60 days.

You know with all the issues with the LibertyAR Stoner Barrels from Satern Machining
if there will be problems when or if I ever get the cut rifled barrel I ordered from them.
If there are problems will Satern so slow to respond.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

. . . The Brownells barrel chambered the same ammo with little effort that the AR Stoner barrel wouldn't with a lot of effort.

As I await a response from Brownells http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...6.5G/page5 (See Reply #46), if you have Hornady factory-loaded 123-grain A-MAX ammunition, it would be helpful to know:

1, After chambering same in your Brownells 6.5 Grendel Barrel, can you close, lock the Bolt Carrier Group, without difficulty?
2, Upon extraction of same (unfired), is there any resistance?
3, Upon examination of the cartridges following extraction, has the COL remained unchanged?
4, Are there any visible marks on the bullets? If so, describe.
5, If you've had the opportunity to test-fire the Hornady factory-loaded 123-grain A-MAX ammunition, in your Brownells Barrel, is there any sign(s) of high pressure exhibited on the case/primer?

[Trock03]

SNS - I don't have any A-MAX at the house. The only ammo I've run through the barrel yet is some AA 123gr Scenar; the same ammo that would chamber in the Brownells barrel but wouldn't in the AR Stoner. Was in Academy last Sunday and noticed they had 12 boxes of Hornady 123gr SST so I relieved them of a few. Will pull the trigger on a few this weekend.

I don't have the numbers with me at the moment but the COAL on the AA ammo was all over the place. Some long some short but seems like they were mostly around 2.265+- with a few dipping down in the 2.24 range. Not a big deal I suppose but I didn't expect that much variance in a box of commercial ammo. The primers showed minimal signs of over-pressure. I was having ejection issues (brass kept dropping at my feet) so I need to get the gas block/tube sorted out. It's an 18" middy barrel so I'm thinking the extra dwell time and partially plugged gas system could be causing the slight over-pressure.

[LRRPF52]

The HPBT projectiles from Lapua, Sierra, and Berger will all show variance in the meplats, so raw COL will vary a bit. Unless you use a meplat trimmer, it's just the way they are, and this fact is a good consideration to keep in mind when loading a longer COL in the mags.

The gas system won't cause any over-pressure, as it relies on bled pressure from the chamber to drive the operating system. Excessive dwell time can cause early unlocking, but if your spent cases are falling very near you as described, you might want to turn up the gas some.

If there is minimal jump into a short chamber, excessive pressure signs are highly possible. What kind of primer signs did you see, and what were your velocities? Any pics of the case heads?

[Trock03]

LRRP - Good info about the meplat variance. Was unaware of that and will keep that in mind when I start reloading.

I don't have any pics of the brass but will get some posted this weekend. Some of the primers seemed a bit flat and a few showed very slight cratering. The COL of the Hornady SSTs I bought were all shorter than the shortest AA rounds that I shot. Will have a chance to shoot the SSTs this weekend so will post pics of the Hornady brass compared to the AA brass. Had some strange dents on the brass but I'm will to bet that increasing the gas will fix that.

No chrony so can't give you velocities. All the talk of short/tight chambers lately is pushing me closer to purchasing one.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

SNS - I don't have any A-MAX at the house. The only ammo I've run through the barrel yet is some AA 123gr Scenar; the same ammo that would chamber in the Brownells barrel but wouldn't in the AR Stoner. Was in Academy last Sunday and noticed they had 12 boxes of Hornady 123gr SST so I relieved them of a few. Will pull the trigger on a few this weekend.

I don't have the numbers with me at the moment but the COAL on the AA ammo was all over the place. Some long some short but seems like they were mostly around 2.265+- with a few dipping down in the 2.24 range. Not a big deal I suppose but I didn't expect that much variance in a box of commercial ammo. The primers showed minimal signs of over-pressure. I was having ejection issues (brass kept dropping at my feet) so I need to get the gas block/tube sorted out. It's an 18" middy barrel so I'm thinking the extra dwell time and partially plugged gas system could be causing the slight over-pressure.

Trock03,

In view of the less than definitive response I received from Brownells today http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...5G&p=87206 (Scroll down to Reply #49), I would appreciate your checking your recently-acquired factory-loaded Hornady 6.5 Grendel 123-grain SST cartridges, in the Brownells Barrel, per the routine in Reply #11, above, at your convenience. Thanks.

Good shooting, this weekend!

[Trock03]

Trock03,

In view of the less than definitive response I received from Brownells today http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...5G&p=87206 (Scroll down to Reply #49), I would appreciate your checking your recently-acquired factory-loaded Hornady 6.5 Grendel 123-grain SST cartridges, in the Brownells Barrel, per the routine in Reply #11, above, at your convenience. Thanks.

Good shooting, this weekend!

SNS - Won't get a chance to shoot until tomorrow but just got done running through your checklist. Here are my results with factory Hornady 123gr SST:

First, I removed the ejector and gravity fed a round into the chamber. Bolt bolt closed with a little effort. I can't drop the round in and spin the bolt freely but a slight push and twist allows me to lock the bolt. The round won't fall out without dropping one of the small Otis brass rods down the barrel but I can't find any marks on the bullet/casing. To be honest I'm not sure if the bolt should close and lock with no effort at all or if there should be a little resistance. Regardless, I'm not concerned about the slight amount of resistance I'm seeing.

Reassembled the bolt and hand chambered a round that I had colored with a Sharpie. Used the weight of the BCG to chamber the round. Slowly extracted the round without allowing it to be pushed against the barrel extension. Observed very slight land marks that start 0.074" from the end of the case. The marks were just enough to lighten the coloring I applied but not remove it. Round measured 2.242" before and after.

Grabbed an AA 123gr Scenar and chambered with the weight of the BCG. Locking and extracting was significantly more difficult. Had to tap the charging handle with a dead blow to unlock. Land marks were a little more pronounced. Land marks start .127" from end of the case. Round measured 2.264" before and after.

Brass dimensions are identical for the most part.

Will post some pics comparing AA and Hornady primers after the range tomorrow.

TC

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

SNS - Won't get a chance to shoot until tomorrow but just got done running through your checklist. Here are my results with factory Hornady 123gr SST:

First, I removed the ejector and gravity fed a round into the chamber. Bolt bolt closed with a little effort. I can't drop the round in and spin the bolt freely but a slight push and twist allows me to lock the bolt. The round won't fall out without dropping one of the small Otis brass rods down the barrel but I can't find any marks on the bullet/casing. To be honest I'm not sure if the bolt should close and lock with no effort at all or if there should be a little resistance. Regardless, I'm not concerned about the slight amount of resistance I'm seeing.

Reassembled the bolt and hand chambered a round that I had colored with a Sharpie. Used the weight of the BCG to chamber the round. Slowly extracted the round without allowing it to be pushed against the barrel extension. Observed very slight land marks that start 0.074" from the end of the case. The marks were just enough to lighten the coloring I applied but not remove it. Round measured 2.242" before and after.

Grabbed an AA 123gr Scenar and chambered with the weight of the BCG. Locking and extracting was significantly more difficult. Had to tap the charging handle with a dead blow to unlock. Land marks were a little more pronounced. Land marks start .127" from end of the case. Round measured 2.264" before and after.

Brass dimensions are identical for the most part.

Will post some pics comparing AA and Hornady primers after the range tomorrow.

TC

Trock03,

Thank you for sharing your in-depth report. Like you (but with factory-loaded Hornady 123-grain A-MAX cartridges), I experienced the need to use a cleaning rod to tap out the cartridges: in my case, after firmly inserting each into the chamber by hand (When using the spring-loaded BCG to chamber the cartridges, I noted some resistance upon extracting the unfired cartridges). And, like you, I noted marks on the bullets: in my case, approx. 0.075" - 0.080" forward of the necks of the cases. I'll trust to the analysis of your input, by other Members of our Forum.

Good shooting, tomorrow! Looking forward to your pics of fired primers.

[LRRPF52]

I wouldn't fire any ammunition if it is jammed into the throat. That's going to spike your pressures. I can already predict that you will most likely show signs of at least slightly cratered primers.

Sounds like the shorter COL SST load is lip-kissing the lands, and the 123gr Scenar is French kissing them with quite a bit of tongue. You'll probably get by fine with the SST load, but I personally would be very hesitant about the Scenar load, from what I'm seeing here.

Do you have a chronograph by any chance?

[Walter]

I agree with LRRPF, but now I cant unsee the French kiss with tounge. THANKS for that.

[Trock03]

This might have ruined French kissing for me.

LRRP - Negative on the chronograph. Wish I had one now. Velocity data would be extremely helpful for me with this barrel. Will probably pick up a few more boxes of SST tomorrow before I head to the ranch for some trigger time.

Not sure what to do with these Scenars now. I'm a reloading novice so don't crucify me for asking the following question. Anything wrong with seating the factory Scenars another hundredth or two shorter?

TC