AR-Stoner 6.5 Grendel barrel short chambered.

[XcountryRider]

I reread your message you sent to Greg and i'm still getting the impression you took measurements and didn't actually chamber a round? Is that not correct?

[LRRPF52]

You can't determine that the 123gr SST was buried passed the cannelure without chambering it, whether with a case gauge or regular case.

Grendanimal stated that he determined that his chamber would not allow seating past a point where the cannelure was still buried.

[Grendanimal]

I reread your message you sent to Greg and i'm still getting the impression you took measurements and didn't actually chamber a round? Is that not correct?

Like I said, I wasn't trying to be a jerk, and I don't know anybody else's knowledge level around here yet as far as using tools, etc. Yes. I used a Hornady OAL gauge, 6.5 Grendel modified case, and calipers. And I am definitely not trying to be insulting, but assumed you knew what those tools are and how they are used. I inserted the 123 SST bullet (I tried a few) into the modified case, and used the gauge to seat the bullet into the chamber until it stopped. Anyone who has used one knows how this process is done, as you use what is basically a thick piano wire to push on until it seats/stops against the lands, etc. I tried it a few times with varying amounts of force, even to the point where the bullet stuck a couple times, and came up with that measurement (2.195) as being the maximum that that bullet could be seated to. (actually less than that because I rarely seat bullets to the lands even in my bolt action rifles) And at that max measurement, the cannelure of the bullet is not even visible. I hope that clears it up for you and like I said, not trying to be a jerk, but have to make some assumptions with people on basic handloading knowledge (not sure if you use tools, your experience, etc.). And yes, normally I'm only worried about the measurement to the ogive (then use the comparator), but it was obvious that people needed a head stamp to tip length measurement to figure some of this out. The only other possibility is if this batch of Hornady bullets is somehow defective. That doesn't seem to be the case.

And I read your previous post. Chambering a round and seating a bullet are two different things. If I had reason to believe a barrel had a problem, I would use a measurement tool (as I did) before "chambering a live round". In this case, I will not be chambering a live round because I have determined that that live round would be too long to put in that chamber. The only way to get it in would be to force it by slamming something against it (like a flying bolt), or to handload a bullet to what I believe would be very very deep and unsafe (cannelure way down in case), and I am not willing to do that for what I hope are obvious reasons. Releasing that bolt might push that softer bullet into the lands farther, but that is definitely not a good idea, and proves nothing.

[Tedward]

Grendanimal, thanks for your detailed explaination of how to use the modified case. I have a couple, just got them because they were finally available, but haven't used them. Not reloading my own, someone else has volunteered to do it for me. But I did just buy the go/no-go gauges because they became available and wanted to test them due to this trend. Now that your explanation makes a lot of sense, I'm going to check my Satern Barrels also with that method.

I have relied on them being a great barrel manufacture and just put the factory ammo in and have had no issues. I'll check some of my twice fired, for function testing purposes, and check some unfired new barrels too. I wonder if firing a few factory rounds is "clearing" any left behind burs or possible new unlapped imperfections that might be causing the issues you are having.

Again thanks and welcome to the hoard..I don't think you got your welcome yet....

[Trock03]

It bothers me that so many people seem to be comfortable with the fact that may have to massage a load slightly to get it to seat properly in a brand new barrel. Customizing a round to a rifle for accuracy is understandable. Customizing a round for a rifle just to get the bolt to close is unacceptable. I've been shooting my whole life and have done a good job of trying to pull the trigger on every firearm out there. I don't recall one instance of out of spec factory ammo causing this type of issue. Same thing with the several variations of ARs I've put together for myself and others. Not one issue.

I have an RA# from Midway to send the barrel/bolt back. They can sell it to someone who has the time to tinker with a load that will allow the bolt to lock. If there is anyone in the Houston area that wants my ammo from Alexander Arms (123 grain Scenars) feel free to PM me...but don't expect it to work in all barrels.

Wonder what the 6.8 guys are talking about this morning?

[keystone183]

Wonder what the 6.8 guys are talking about this morning?

Wildcat loads......

[customcutter]

Wonder what the 6.8 guys are talking about this morning?

Probably wondering why they can't shoot 1000 yd targets.

[jluck]

Wonder what the 6.8 guys are talking about this morning?

Wishing they would have bought a Grendel.....

Or maybe the 6.8 I Vs. II drivel.

I'd like to buy the ammo but...
I am not in the Houston area, A mail man is though??

[PigOPs]

Out of curiosity because I've not figured out the whole "cannelure" thing. What is the issue with the cannelure being seated into the case?

[Tedward]

Probably wondering why they can't shoot 1000 yd targets.

I read that question and no response. Your answer was point on!

[woohoo]

Wildcat loads......

LOL, as usual everything from .224-.458

[FlatsFlite]

With everything being said in this thread, I'm feeling a lot better about my 6.8 ARP sitting in my safe than the Liberty barrel I have that may, or may not have a short chamber.

I wish I had the stuff to check iy out, but I don't. So needless to say, I'm not a 100 percent satisfied Grendel owner yet.

[mccuistion]

Out of curiosity because I've not figured out the whole "cannelure" thing. What is the issue with the cannelure being seated into the case?

I would like to hear this too. Everything i've seated for my barrel has been well past the cannelure, but it is my understanding the 129 and 140 SST aren't made for the Grendel so the cannelure isnt a factor like the 123 is?


To the previous post... this is not to be rude at all, just something to think about. If you don't have the tools to check anything on a rifle you built or are building, you might want to have a gunsmith do so? Again not trying to be rude but when i decided to build mine i bought every measuring device Hornady made, but then again i handload.

Afterall it's your safety.

[XcountryRider]

Like I said, I wasn't trying to be a jerk, and I don't know anybody else's knowledge level around here yet as far as using tools, etc. Yes. I used a Hornady OAL gauge, 6.5 Grendel modified case, and calipers. And I am definitely not trying to be insulting, but assumed you knew what those tools are and how they are used. I inserted the 123 SST bullet (I tried a few) into the modified case, and used the gauge to seat the bullet into the chamber until it stopped. Anyone who has used one knows how this process is done, as you use what is basically a thick piano wire to push on until it seats/stops against the lands, etc. I tried it a few times with varying amounts of force, even to the point where the bullet stuck a couple times, and came up with that measurement (2.195) as being the maximum that that bullet could be seated to. (actually less than that because I rarely seat bullets to the lands even in my bolt action rifles) And at that max measurement, the cannelure of the bullet is not even visible. I hope that clears it up for you and like I said, not trying to be a jerk, but have to make some assumptions with people on basic handloading knowledge (not sure if you use tools, your experience, etc.). And yes, normally I'm only worried about the measurement to the ogive (then use the comparator), but it was obvious that people needed a head stamp to tip length measurement to figure some of this out. The only other possibility is if this batch of Hornady bullets is somehow defective. That doesn't seem to be the case.

And I read your previous post. Chambering a round and seating a bullet are two different things. If I had reason to believe a barrel had a problem, I would use a measurement tool (as I did) before "chambering a live round". In this case, I will not be chambering a live round because I have determined that that live round would be too long to put in that chamber. The only way to get it in would be to force it by slamming something against it (like a flying bolt), or to handload a bullet to what I believe would be very very deep and unsafe (cannelure way down in case), and I am not willing to do that for what I hope are obvious reasons. Releasing that bolt might push that softer bullet into the lands farther, but that is definitely not a good idea, and proves nothing.

Yes i know how it works an I'm familiar so you didn't chamber a round then. How about making a dummy round and chambering that if you're afraid of a live round. Not saying to force it just see if it properly chambers.

[cory]

For the love of God y'all have to slow down. Every time I think I've got caught up to this thread there's 2 more pages for me to read. haha

Wonder if Satern uses a different reamer on button-rifled Liberty / AR-Stoner barrels than what is used on Satern cut-rifled barrels, or if the perceived chamber difference is solely in lapping / finishing? I mention this because I don't recall ever hearing of these problems with their cur-rifled barrels. It might be helpful to learn their manufacturing differences regarding the chambers of each brand.

I would almost assume that Satern's SOP is to use a reamer for X # of their match grade satern barrels and then use that reamer on their mass produced liberty barrels until it wears out of tolerance. That's at least how I'd do it.

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into this. However, I just checked 10 123SST's from 3 different boxes of factory ammo. I got measurements from 2.239" to 2.247". I triple checked measurements 3-4 times and repeated within .0005". Granted this is with a cheap set of HF calipers, but still shows a variance of .008". I even went so far as to check the longest, then the shortest and repeated within .001". Has anyone else ever measured a box of factory ammo? I've never had a reason to before.

My 18" barrel doesn't want to close on the 2.247". I am not releasing the bolt carrier group, simply easing it forward till contact then applying light pressure on the forward assist. It closes on 2.245" or shorter.

I'm beginning to think that possibly the barrels were cut with more than 1 reamer?

Looks like several post were made while I was measuring and posting. Maybe they are all cut wih the same reamer?

While bullet manufacturers have come a long way in increasing the tolerances of their bullets of a metal material, the tolerance of a polymer is an entirely other beast. Especially for this discussion you really need to be measuring your OAL of the round to get a good feel of what's going on. Then you add the fact you're measuring bullets with a polymer tip. The polymer tip itself probably has on the best day a 0.006" tolerance.

I'm not trying to insult I'm just trying to get to a 0.008" deviation seems to be well within tolerances.

With everything being said in this thread, I'm feeling a lot better about my 6.8 ARP sitting in my safe than the Liberty barrel I have that may, or may not have a short chamber.

I wish I had the stuff to check iy out, but I don't. So needless to say, I'm not a 100 percent satisfied Grendel owner yet.

Comparing an ARP match grade barrel to a mass produced liberty barrel is really an apples to oranges comparison. If you want a Grendel barrel that compares to your 6.8 ARP barrel I'd suggest sending the liberty barrel back and ordering a Lilja barrel from Dan or going to Precision firearms and ordering a barrel from them or going the extra mile and ordering one of their world class uppers.

While if there's any problems with the barrels Satern should take the barrels and make it right. However, as I've said these are mass produced barrels and many are discounted barrels at that. If there's less than 5% of the barrels that are having these problems, I'd say that's a testament to a quality company. However, pointing the finger at an ammo manufacturer before inspecting one of the barrels in question is not.

[woohoo]

Comparing an ARP match grade barrel to a mass produced liberty barrel is really an apples to oranges comparison. If you want a Grendel barrel that compares to your 6.8 ARP barrel I'd suggest sending the liberty barrel back and ordering a Lilja barrel from Dan or going to Precision firearms and ordering a barrel from them or going the extra mile and ordering one of their world class uppers.
.

The barrels we sell for $200-$260 aren't match grade barrels, they are production barrels. They may have a few extra things done to them but they are not lapped and I don't advertise them as being match grade.

[adrenaline junkie]

Wishing they would have bought a Grendel.....

Or maybe the 6.8 I Vs. II drivel.

I'd like to buy the ammo but...
I am not in the Houston area, A mail man is though??

There sure as hell aren't any discussions on barrels with badly made chambers, broken bolts, or non existent ammo or bolts...

[45r]

I bet these barrels will be very accurate with Berger VLD hunting bullets.

They like to be close to the lands.

Sometimes mag length limits getting close but these barrels should be better for that.

Once I get done shooting varmit bullets for target shooting and yote hunting the throat should be like a bench rest barrel and I'll shoot the VLD's for long range and the 100 grain TTSX for deer hunting.

For a handloader these barrels might turn out to be better than what some think.

For those that don't handload and got their barrel from Midway and aren't happy they will probably take them back and give a refund.

The barrels from Lilja and PF could be bought for more afterwards but probably make you a lot happier in the long run.

[FlatsFlite]

My point is: I can grab any box of 6.8 off of a shelf and shoot it without a second thought. Now, I have a lierty barrel mounted and ready to roll, but it may be bad.

I have no brass on hand, and no way to tell if it's okay or not until I get some guages.

6.8 bashers can say what they want, but mine works, no question about that. Who knows about the Liberty barrel upper. A defenitive word would be nice one way or another. Otherwise, I'll fret over it for the next month.

[cory]

There sure as hell aren't any discussions on barrels with badly made chambers, broken bolts, or non existent ammo or bolts...

non existent bolts??? You haven't been around much lately have you. We've got 2 new manufacturers online with 3 new outlets to order them from. Not to mention that AA seems to be getting caught up on their back ordered bolts.