I made a dummy round gauge to measure my chamber today, sadly I don't have any 123gr SST, I only have 120gr SMK and 129gr SST. The results gave me a scare though... All load data I've read says to seat the 120gr SMK over 2.200" however when I use the gauge my round is contacting the lands with a OAL of 2.194" Also the 129gr SST is listed by AA to be seated to 2.260" and my dummy is hitting the lands at 2.259" I tested both bullets about 5 times to make sure my results were consistent. Although it's only slightly under listed load lengths that's where they are contacting the lands so i'll have to load even shorter...
Is this enough of an issue to contact midway or Liberty about? It seems to me like a chamber should be larger than minimum published OAL for multiple bullet types. I can get the ogive measurements too if those are needed to get a better idea.
XcountryRider
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Ok guys stop the panic liberty barrels have always had a shorter chamber which means you can't load as far out but you get higher than average velocities as well. I've loaded from 100 to 140gr in two of my liberty barrels.
It's just a little disconcerting when your chamber doesn't allow you to get to minimum published OAL. If this doesn't raise any red flags for anyone i'm ok with loading short but I think i'm going to call Liberty Monday just to talk with them about it.
customcutter
Unregistered
XcountryRider Wrote:Ok guys stop the panic liberty barrels have always had a shorter chamber which means you can't load as far out but you get higher than average velocities as well. I've loaded from 100 to 140gr in two of my liberty barrels.
Are you saying they are not SAAMI specs? Shorter chambers, throats, whatever, would produce pressure spikes which will produce higher velocities.
customcutter
Unregistered
mccuistion Wrote:It's just a little disconcerting when your chamber doesn't allow you to get to minimum published OAL. If this doesn't raise any red flags for anyone i'm ok with loading short but I think i'm going to call Liberty Monday just to talk with them about it.
My 123 SST factory loads close and eject, with no marks on the brass or bullet. That being said, please let us know what Satern/Liberty has to say about the issue on Monday.
XcountryRider
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customcutter Wrote:My 123 SST factory loads close and eject, with no marks on the brass or bullet. That being said, please let us know what Satern/Liberty has to say about the issue on Monday.
Of course they do not surprised.
XcountryRider Wrote:Ok guys stop the panic liberty barrels have always had a shorter chamber which means you can't load as far out but you get higher than average velocities as well. I've loaded from 100 to 140gr in two of my liberty barrels.
So, because liberty barrels have always had a shorter chamber, that it supposed to make it OK for me to load a factory round which is longer than the chamber or be forced to reload my rounds to fit that special short chamber. That makes no sense and it is not an acceptable business practice.
XcountryRider
Unregistered
LongRanger Wrote:So, because liberty barrels have always had a shorter chamber, that it supposed to make it OK for me to load a factory round which is longer than the chamber or be forced to reload my rounds to fit that special short chamber. That makes no sense and it is not an acceptable business practice.
What factory ammo will not chamber?
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Hndy 123 A-Max won't chamber in the OP's rifle. Another member mentioned AA 123 Scenar.
Has anyone checked the bolt face depth? I have an 18" and 16" Stoner barrel I just received, the bolts measure .1325. I have 3 LBC bolts that measure .135, and a Shilen at .135. Also, I bought an AR Stoner barrel at least 6 months ago and these bolts look identical, loose extractor pin and all. Unfortunately I did not measure the bolt face depth on that barrels bolt.
I removed the ejector on the bolts and checked the barrels, I had no problems with factory 123 grn SST ammo that I could see.
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I don't have a reliable way to measure this new AR Stoner bolt but eyeballing my calipers with the extractor removed I'm getting roughly .132.
I can see how there might be an issue between multiple reloaders considering variations in tolerances and they way each person sets up their equipment. I'm frustrated that this ammo from Alexander Arms is unable to seat fully. Will try to get hold of some Hornady A-MAX to compare dimensions. Anyone have any AA 123 Scenars they can get some measurements from?
I don't think I'm going to return the barrel/bolt to Midway. Going to find a local gunsmith take a look at the chamber.
customcutter Wrote:My 123 SST factory loads close and eject, with no marks on the brass or bullet.
Did you purchase your barrel in the last 3 weeks? Since the new batch came in stock at Midway?
The 3 of us that are looking at chamber issues all purchased from the last batch of 18" AR Stoner barrels.
XcountryRider
Unregistered
I have a 18in Barrel from the last batch and like i said functions fine. As i'm sure you guys will find out as well when you take your rifles to the range.
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I don't have a dog in this fight, XCR, but I think you're looking past the fact that some of the aforementioned barrels won't close the bolt on factory ammo. I don't see how, in those cases, going to the range will prove anything they already haven't determined at home. Further, attempting to fire any rifle that has a chance of being out of battery is just begging for attention from a paramedic and/or a gunsmith.
I personally wouldn't attempt to shoot any of those barrels (at least with a load that won't go fully into battery) for any amount of money. If the problem isn't a short throat, then headspace is the only other possibility. Either way, I seriously disagree that the range is where it needs to be resolved.
XcountryRider
Unregistered
dmsims21 Wrote:Hndy 123 A-Max won't chamber in the OP's rifle. Another member mentioned AA 123 Scenar.
Where is he saying factory Amax won't chamber?
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jurassic Wrote:Has anyone checked the bolt face depth? I have an 18" and 16" Stoner barrel I just received, the bolts measure .1325. I have 3 LBC bolts that measure .135, and a Shilen at .135. Also, I bought an AR Stoner barrel at least 6 months ago and these bolts look identical, loose extractor pin and all. Unfortunately I did not measure the bolt face depth on that barrels bolt.
I removed the ejector on the bolts and checked the barrels, I had no problems with factory 123 grn SST ammo that I could see.
.1325" is within tolerances (-.003" IIRC), but doesn't really answer the question. If I was one of the recent recipients of these AR Stoner barrels, I'd try another bolt (one at .135"), to see if that allows the factory ammunition to chamber correctly.
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XcountryRider Wrote:Where is he saying factory Amax won't chamber?
I believe the OP was concerned about seating depth with the A-Max, but didn't mention chambering issues. The AA 123 Scenar, on the other hand, will not chamber in at least one of the barrels.
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01-19-2014, 05:19 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2014, 05:23 AM by Trock03.)
XcountryRider Wrote:I have a 18in Barrel from the last batch and like i said functions fine. As i'm sure you guys will find out as well when you take your rifles to the range.
XcountryRider, I wish I could be as optimistic as you. It's possible that with the mass of the BCG being propelled by my Wolf buffer spring will be enough to fully seat the round and achieve lockup. After that, it's also very possible that I'll experience at least one of several bad possible results of dropping the hammer on that round.
This barrel won't see the range until a competent smith takes a look at it and gets the bolt to close.
I'm glad you've had a good experience with your barrel and I'm positive that 95% of the others that made the same purchase will be as satisfied as you. I feel like I have a good handle on what the issue is and that it can be taken care of shortly. Just sucks that this is my first experience with the Grendel....but at least there's only one way to go from here!
TC
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LongRanger Wrote:I waited for one year to finally get my 18" AR-Stoner 6.5 Grendel barrel. First thing that I did was to check the head space and that was OK. I checked the cartridge overall length for a 123 grain A-Max bullet and the OAL was only 2.236". Since factory A-Max cartridges averaged out to slightly over 2.25", I did not want to have my bullets forced into the barrels lands. I sent that one back and they sent out a new one. The new one has an OAL of 2.246" which is only slightly better. I figure that I can safely fire the factory Wolf Gold 6.5 Grendel and any A-Max reloads that I load to around 2.23" Should I send this barrel back too? Hopefully, the 2 Lilja barrels that I ordered will have the proper chamber and I will not have to go through this bull. Anyone else having this experience with their AR-Stoner Grendel barrels?
I guess he didn't technically have trouble chambering a factory A-max, b/c he didn't try. He measured the OAL for his rifle to be less than the OAL for factory ammo. He correctly determined something was wrong, and decided not to try firing.
Factory ammo for an AR should not be in the lands. I also find it sketchy that his second rifle varied by 0.01 in OAL. That sounds like a big difference to me. Maybe there was some error in OÀL measurement.
XcountryRider
Unregistered
NugginFutz Wrote:I believe the OP was concerned about seating depth with the A-Max, but didn't mention chambering issues. The AA 123 Scenar, on the other hand, will not chamber in at least one of the barrels.
I've never used that ammo so i can't say how it would work in any of my Liberty barrels.
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