Liberty Barrel Group Buy Build Comments

[Sputnik]

Is this just a case of the first time someone put together a bolt.

Ouch! Please nobody tell my CO, that in my 25 years in the Corps, I can't put together a bolt

No worries! I think the common observation is very tight gas rings, which I acknowledged and others have verified. My observation was that my extractor does not look like all others I have seen; as the image clearly shows the spring end of the extractor is not flush with the rest of the bolt. Anything to worry about? Uncertain. Should everyone be aware? definitely!

[Tedward]

Ouch! Please nobody tell my CO, that in my 25 years in the Corps, I can't put together a bolt

No worries! I think the common observation is very tight gas rings, which I acknowledged and others have verified. My observation was that my extractor does not look like all others I have seen; as the image clearly shows the spring end of the extractor is not flush with the rest of the bolt. Anything to worry about? Uncertain. Should everyone be aware? definitely!

I think I figured out why your seeing it the way you do. How many Grendel bolts have you looked real close at? I'm being sarcastic because I just realized that what your seeing is correct and the head space being .010 deeper lets the extractor close further toward the center of the bolt letting the extractor heal stick out. I never looked so close but I think that is what your noticing. So your not crazy, its a GRENDEL thing....

I just compared an AR-Stoner (used one in my Grendel), a new Maxium and new LBC Bolt. All the measuremnts work out so that is what I'm seeing.

I also measured the OAL of the Grendel bolts and a 223, the Grendels are 2.810 and the 223/556 are 2.800. As it was brought up in the past, they added .010 to the OAL of the Grendel Bolts for the firing pin protrusion.

[customcutter]

I assembled mine and no problems that I was aware of. However, I will say this is my first build and first time I've assembled a bolt. So with that said I wouldn't know if there was a problem unless it jumped up and bit me. Still waiting on mags and a scope and thread protector/muzzle device. I did look to see how much firing pin extended past the bolt face and noticed it was very little, so not worried about punturing primers.

[Sputnik]

Understood, and I agree with you. It was just strange to see both of my other Grendel bolts "heel" be flush with the bolt surface. And this one stick out .015. It obviously rubs the inside of the carrier as the heel tip's finish is now shiny. Just an observation that I wanted to throw out there. Thanks!

[Tedward]

I assembled mine and no problems that I was aware of. However, I will say this is my first build and first time I've assembled a bolt. So with that said I wouldn't know if there was a problem unless it jumped up and bit me. Still waiting on mags and a scope and thread protector/muzzle device. I did look to see how much firing pin extended past the bolt face and noticed it was very little, so not worried about puncturing primers.

I had a few other manufacture of bolts earlier this year from Tactical Ammunition and R-Guns. Those 2 I don't have now but did notice the firing pin issue of it protruding further. I did measure the bolt face (.135) but didn't think to measure the Bolt OAL. One of the 2 of them had less firing pin protrusion so must have been shorter (modified 223/556 bolt). I never knew there was a difference in length till Maxum told me they compensate (made the bolt tail longer) for the deeper head space to keep the firing pin in the correct place.

As for the extractor, I have Extractors from Maxum, not the ones from Satern. I am sure Satern got those bolts with the groves on them from Maxum but got extractors from there other bolt source. So when people get theirs, I would like to know if they notice what Sputnik was talking about.

I don't think it will matter but as Spuntnik has noted, it does make contact to indicate wear.

[dmsims21]

Does the claw end of the extractor lay below flush?
It sounds to me like the extractor is pivoting in too far. It may prevent the rim from making its way into the bolt recess.
Since different extractors act the same in each bolt, the cutout in the bolt is probably too deep. The pin location is probably OK, or the bolt wouldn't fit in the carrier at all.
You may try building up the cutout in the bolt with Devon or JB Weld, or you could add some to the extractor. You could put on extra and sand it down till the extractor laid flush.

[Underground Tactical]

I had a few other manufacture of bolts earlier this year from Tactical Ammunition and R-Guns. Those 2 I don't have now but did notice the firing pin issue of it protruding further. I did measure the bolt face (.135) but didn't think to measure the Bolt OAL. One of the 2 of them had less firing pin protrusion so must have been shorter (modified 223/556 bolt). I never knew there was a difference in length till Maxum told me they compensate (made the bolt tail longer) for the deeper head space to keep the firing pin in the correct place.

As for the extractor, I have Extractors from Maxum, not the ones from Satern. I am sure Satern got those bolts with the groves on them from Maxum but got extractors from there other bolt source. So when people get theirs, I would like to know if they notice what Sputnik was talking about.

I don't think it will matter but as Spuntnik has noted, it does make contact to indicate wear.

We didn't supply them the extractors for their Maxim bolts.

[Sputnik]

Whoa! we are getting way ahead of ourselves with speculations and finger pointing. I merely wanted to alert Liberty Builders I had some difficulty with inserting my bolt into the carrier, with tight rings and a peculiar looking protrusion. and the spring end of the extractor. Personally, I don't think it is the extractor. The extractor fits nicely in my AA bolt. Without detailed competent measurements and inspection, which I am not capable of doing, we need to be careful. We won't be able to "unring" alarm bells to some readers. I would be happy to mail this bolt to anyone that feels curious enough; capable enough to examine it. As long as I get it back. Mark comes to mind, since he has an interest in Maxim bolts, but he is somewhat out of the picture lately.

[XcountryRider]

Just heard from a reliable source it was Millennium Manufacturing that built the extractors for the bolts that Satern supplied.

[Sputnik]

Does the claw end of the extractor lay below flush?
It sounds to me like the extractor is pivoting in too far. It may prevent the rim from making its way into the bolt recess.
Since different extractors act the same in each bolt, the cutout in the bolt is probably too deep. The pin location is probably OK, or the bolt wouldn't fit in the carrier at all.
You may try building up the cutout in the bolt with Devon or JB Weld, or you could add some to the extractor. You could put on extra and sand it down till the extractor laid flush.

Interesting observation. A new photo in my profile shows what you describe. I don't know how to post photos here. Another member posted the first one for me. The bolts are side by side and the claw on the Liberty bolt (left) goes down further into the bolt face. The AA bolt (right) follows the circumference of the outer rim. I will also add that the ability to lift the claw with the Liberty bolt is easier and allows much more travel. The AA claw is stiffer to move and travels less. It also appears the extractor bedding groove/channel goes down deeper on the Liberty bolt. Which one is good? I don't know, both?

[Sputnik]

Just heard from a reliable source it was Millennium Manufacturing that built the extractors for the bolts that Satern supplied.

I honestly think it is a bolt issue. Whether it is a big deal? Not sure, just saying it is different.

[XcountryRider]

melinium mfg., also known as Lehigh Defense.

[LRRPF52]

Extractors and bolts are usually made by different types of machine shops, since they are different core competencies with regard to materials sourcing, machining, and heat-treating.

The best scenario is when you have one final company doing TQM on components before they go into a rifle or upper, and this starts with that single company soliciting the various machine/heat treatment/finishing shops with a specific set of technical drawings and data packages that follow a well-engineered scheme.

It is very rare that these individualized machine shops ever want their names known outside of the manufacturing chains, and once a regular manufacturer secures long-term work with them, that manufacturer doesn't want anyone knowing who their sources are because of competition.

Extractors are usually MIM'd, but not all of them. As to an extractor dragging inside the hard chromed carrier, the chrome will usually win.

You should feel resistance from the gas rings once they transition from the largest ID of the bolt channel in the carrier, to the mid-section ID where the gas rings are compressed into the tighter ID in order to provide a gas seal, combined with the bolt tail in the smallest ID:

[XcountryRider]

I'm not seeing any issues with the two i have maybe theirs something i don't understand about the issue?

[Sputnik]

[quote=LRRPF52]As to an extractor dragging inside the hard chromed carrier, the chrome will usually win.

You should feel resistance from the gas rings once they transition from the largest ID of the bolt channel in the carrier, to the mid-section ID where the gas rings are compressed into the tighter ID in order to provide a gas seal, combined with the bolt tail in the smallest ID:

Thanks LRRPF52, I concur! Especially during much of the bolts cycle forward and back, it has a live round, or a spent casing engaging the claw which also should reduce the other end of the extractors drag, or eliminate it.

[waveslayer]

Mine had a tight fit as well. Has anyone measured their overall length for their reloads with these new barrels? I did mine last night and it was quite a bit of difference between my 24" AA. Some difference is to be expected but it was well over .1 of an inch difference.

[Sputnik]

Bolt faces of Liberty bolt on left and AA bolt on right. The groove holding the extractors look different depths. Notice how the extractor on the AA bolt follows the contour of the rest of the extractor's circumference:

[Sputnik]

Mine had a tight fit as well. Has anyone measured their overall length for their reloads with these new barrels? I did mine last night and it was quite a bit of difference between my 24" AA. Some difference is to be expected but it was well over .1 of an inch difference.

Explain please; are you talking chamber length or bolt length?

[Underground Tactical]

Bolt faces of Liberty bolt on left and AA bolt on right. The groove holding the extractors look different depths. Notice how the extractor on the AA bolt follows the contour of the rest of the extractor's circumference:

Here is what ours looks like. I took one out of our packaging to show quickly before I fly out in the early AM to SHOT. But I think you will be fine with the Liberty bolt that you have pictured (and that one is NOT ours). When the brass is in the bolt face your extractor will be sitting perfect.

[Sputnik]

Thanks UTA. You confirmed my hopes. Maybe with the deeper grasp, they will hold on tighter. Good fortune at SHOT! Have you decided on a price on your bolts?