Desert Tactical Arms

[Keep The Change]

I forget what website I saw this on but it said that Desert Tactical had an opportunity to make a big sale to Pakistan and refused to.

They would never want their weapons to be used on a US Soldier was the excuse.
Good for them.
If I could afford a rifle from them I'd support them with business.

I had looked at some of their stuff online before and it is super cool and neat. They off a 6.5x47 Lapua. I might have to look into that round a little more when I decide to do a bolt gun eventually. I thought that till I looked at the ammo price. Maybe I will just do a 300 win mag.

Anyway good for DTA

[WildBill3/75]

To many negatives for me to ever buy one.

Switch calibers have always been a novelty item in my mind. I'd much rather have a dedicated rifle per caliber.
Being a bullpup the bolt throw is very awkward.
Being a bullpup it inherently doesn't have the best design of trigger around.
If you ever look at one and compare it to another factory rifle in its class such as an AI in it's price range the contrast in craftsmanship is apparent.

I've been watching the evolution of this rifle for a while and it looks to be an ever evolving product that you are paying to test for them....cheek riser, buttspike, gen 2 barrel extension, problems with shoulder pad....you get the picture. You the consumer are the R&D sadly.

Now if they were priced @ $1500 cheaper I might be singing a different tune and be able to accept the short comings but at their current market price I'd rather have an AI or better yet a full blown custom.

Yes .260, 6.5creedmoor, 6.5x47L are all great short action options in the 6.5 class. a long action 6.5x55 swede(lapuas cheapest brass) shooting VLD's would be pretty sweet too.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

I forget what website I saw this on but it said that Desert Tactical had an opportunity to make a big sale to Pakistan and refused to.

They would never want their weapons to be used on a US Soldier was the excuse.
Good for them.
If I could afford a rifle from them I'd support them with business.

I had looked at some of their stuff online before and it is super cool and neat. They off a 6.5x47 Lapua. I might have to look into that round a little more when I decide to do a bolt gun eventually. I thought that till I looked at the ammo price. Maybe I will just do a 300 win mag.

Anyway good for DTA

http://www.dtacomlink.com/dta-dtm-3080-y...5-cheytac/

[BluntForceTrauma]

@KTC: I read that, too, and thought to myself, "Good for them." From my reading, there's a big chunk of Pakistan that is happy to play both sides of the aisle, proving those guys can't really be trusted.

John

[cory]

... there's a big chunk of Pakistan that is happy to play both sides of the aisle, proving those guys can't really be trusted.

John

That's the middle east as a whole. It's part of their culture.

Still good for DTA!

[LRRPF52]

Pakistan is really at least two incompatible nations:

* The ethnic Punjabi people whose ancestors were forcibly converted to the Mohameddan sect with the eastward crusades of the Umayyad Army starting in 711 A.D.

* The ethnic Federally Administrated Tribal areas, which have a significant Pashtun people in the mountainous and ungovernable regions that saddle Afghanistan and Pakistan. This is the Mujahadeen heartland, now known as Taliban by many, although there are scores of different warlords and mini armies with varying loyalties saturating the FATAs.

Pakistan is basically in a state of war with itself, and in a cold war with India. It is an Islamic state, but with varying degrees of compliance to strict interpretations of Islam, since the Punjabis were historically Hindu, and most of them migrated to India after the split when India gained its independence from the waning British Empire post-WWII.

The region has ancient historical precedence for disloyalty to the Indian sub-continental people because one of the ancient Kings conspired with Alexander the Great in order to further his interests. Sitting on the gates between Afghanistan and India, it has been central to agriculture and trade between historical and legendary empires, where geography entrenches and hardens peoples in the foothills and mountains, while the low-land river valley peoples focus on crop cultivation.

Trying to make sense of the region requires basically a lifetime of study, and China has extremely significant regional interests in investing in Pakistan to act as strategic depth against their biggest arch-rival, India, which is why China gave Pakistan nuclear weapons and is a major provider of war material to Pakistan.

Short story, providing Federal Pakistani Army with sniper rifles looks good on paper at keeping the balance of power with the FATA and insurgents, but you also have jihadi loyalists inside the Pakistani ISI (Intelligence), who even wired money to Mohammed Atta pre-9/11. That was their ISI General Mahmoud, who flew to the US so he could watch it unfold even with a front row seat in D.C.

[Dan]

A friend of mine works for them in load development. I talked to his dad about his experience with one. Said that he could switch between calibers and adjust optics accordingly and it maintained perfect zero. Maybe a novelty item for most but I'm sure there is a niche for this type of rifle.

[Nukes]

A niche for a rifle that shoots one-hole groups? Nah! Nobody wants one of those.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4378[/ATTACH]

The "sighters" were 4 different charges of H4895 (36.9, 37.6, 38.4, 38.8) behind .308 175 gn Berger OTM Tacticals from a 22" factory DTA barrel at 100 yds. The other charges are as labelled.

[lilharcher]

Didnt read article, but can they even sell weapons to Pakistan legally??

[LRRPF52]

Didnt read article, but can they even sell weapons to Pakistan legally??

The US has been selling F-16's to Pakistan for decades, in addition to scores of other military hardware. The first things the Paki's did with our F-16's was equip them to deliver nukes provided by China, which resulted in the Reagan Administration cutting off defense trade with Pakistan.

When the CIA ramped up their covert war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, the Paki's said they were totally willing to help, but they needed the embargo lifted, and they no longer wanted first generation F-16A/B's anymore, they wanted the latest F-16C. Currently, we have been selling them one of the most advanced F-16C/D Block 52 suites that is really a different plane in so many ways compared to the 1980's.

Since Pakistan has sea ports and roads that lead to Afghanistan, they hold the cards when dealing with the US and our need to get war materials through the Hindu Kush mountains into land-locked Afghanistan.

As to the DTA, I think this is an example of social responsibility demonstrated by a company that was in a position to profit significantly from the move. Pakistan doesn't really buy anything from the US, rather they use Foreign Military Aid provided by the US to purchase products exclusively from the US as part of the deal. Everyone in D.C. is happy as there is plenty of money to be spread around, and the State Department couldn't care less. Congress rains money on the districts that manufacture the advanced technology, and everyone goes home fat and happy.

[BjornF16]

The US has been selling F-16's to Pakistan for decades, in addition to scores of other military hardware. The first things the Paki's did with our F-16's was equip them to deliver nukes provided by China, which resulted in the Reagan Administration cutting off defense trade with Pakistan.

Actually, Reagan did not invoke the Pressler Amendment in 1987. It wasn't until after the Russkies left Afghanistan that exports were halted to Pakistan in 1990 by Bush 41.

I don't think PRC delivered working nukes, but some fissile material and plans for a simple bomb. IIRC, it wasn't until late 90's that they finally detonated a bomb. I don't believe there was ever a working bomb for aircraft in the 80's.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...9111300578

[LRRPF52]

Peace Gate I

In December 1981, the government of Pakistan signed a letter of agreement for the purchase of up to 40 F-16A/B (28 F-16A and 12 F-16B) fighters for the Pakistan Fiza'ya (Pakistan Air Force, or PAF). The deal would be split into two batches, one of 6 aircraft and the other of 34. The first aircraft were accepted at Fort Worth in October of 1982, and the first F-16, flown by Squadron Leader Shahid Javed, landed in Pakistan at Sargodha Air Base on January 15th, 1983 as part of a package of 6 'Peace Gate I' aircraft (2 A's and 4 B's).

From what I recall, they developed the munition and delivery system on their early Block 15 F-16A/B's, although the actual capability to arm it with a nuclear warhead remains dubious.

A lot of the F-16A/B's that were meant for Pakistan that got embargoed became aggressors for the USAF and USN. I remember reading about it in Aviation Leak and Spy Technology. F-16.net seems to have an in-depth account of the decades-long drama with PAF F-16's. http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article14.html

They also rigged them with the ATLIS targeting pod. Reading the article further, I see that PAF F-16's saw combat between Soviet and Afghan Air Force aircraft during the Soviet Afghan War, to include some Su-22 and MiG-23 action.

[GMinor]

To many negatives for me to ever buy one.

Switch calibers have always been a novelty item in my mind. I'd much rather have a dedicated rifle per caliber.
Being a bullpup the bolt throw is very awkward.
Being a bullpup it inherently doesn't have the best design of trigger around.
If you ever look at one and compare it to another factory rifle in its class such as an AI in it's price range the contrast in craftsmanship is apparent.

I've been watching the evolution of this rifle for a while and it looks to be an ever evolving product that you are paying to test for them....cheek riser, buttspike, gen 2 barrel extension, problems with shoulder pad....you get the picture. You the consumer are the R&D sadly.

Now if they were priced @ $1500 cheaper I might be singing a different tune and be able to accept the short comings but at their current market price I'd rather have an AI or better yet a full blown custom.

Yes .260, 6.5creedmoor, 6.5x47L are all great short action options in the 6.5 class. a long action 6.5x55 swede(lapuas cheapest brass) shooting VLD's would be pretty sweet too.

You must smoking some good stuff!!! Pair that DTA chassis up with a barrel spun up by TS customs and you have a 1 hole rifle...

[montana]

A niche for a rifle that shoots one-hole groups? Nah! Nobody wants one of those.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4378[/ATTACH]

The "sighters" were 4 different charges of H4895 (36.9, 37.6, 38.4, 38.8) behind .308 175 gn Berger OTM Tacticals from a 22" factory DTA barrel at 100 yds. The other charges are as labelled.

I would say the proofs in the pudding or in this case the small groups.

I take it you don't drink much coffee? I'll be sure to give you some from my special blend if I ever shoot against you

[waveslayer]

Wait until the SHOT show... DTA will be debuting their sick new semi auto bullpup like their bolt actions. They are one of the best rifles I have ever shot... they hold their zero just fine. Try one and you will see why you would want one...

[Nukes]

I would say the proofs in the pudding or in this case the small groups.

I take it you don't drink much coffee? I'll be sure to give you some from my special blend if I ever shoot against you

Good guess! No caffeine, but I am really slow. :-)

The DTA SRS is truly phenomenal. Change barrel, dial offset into the optic, keeps zero.

[WildBill3/75]

You must smoking some good stuff!!! Pair that DTA chassis up with a barrel spun up by TS customs and you have a 1 hole rifle...

I never said this platform was not accurate. The stock barrels from what I have seen are well under 1moa.

SAC, Short Action Customs also makes barrels for the DTA, which are stupidly expensive because of the proprietary DTA barrel extensions.

Being from California, you must truly be smoking some "good stuff." Or just rolling in more money than you know what to do with because if you get a custom kreiger, bartlin, brux, rock, etc spun up with the proprietary barrel extension you are in the thousand dollar region just for the barrel....That isnt even including the price of the chassis and bolt. Once its all said and done that would put you in the price region of a AI AW or a badass custom, shit that even puts you in the region of the price of a tac ops custom rifle or any of the other well known high priced customs.

Then your still stuck with crappy ergonomics, tons of cheap plastic, bullpup trigger....and so on.

You are sipping on some "kool aid" that I want no part of.

[Buck2732]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4380[/ATTACH]

I am lucky enough to know the UK importer/distributor of DAT rifles and have had the pleasure of shooting most of the calibers they do. I have attached an image of a group shot by myself at 100y with a .243 barrel after the barrel changed from .308. off the bi-pod and rear leg. The group was witnessed by several members of the rifle club. it measures 0.330".

[Nukes]

Suum cuique. To each his own.

As the long waiting lines for the HTI and SRS-A1 give evidence, for many of us the ergonomics are perfect (even without the cheekpiece of the SRS-A1), superb trigger (ours has a sweet one and it is adjustable for pull, uptake, and overtravel), multi caliber accuracy is phenomenal, changing calibers takes less than 60 seconds (not a 4 week $1,000 trip to the smith), we have a .308, a 6.5 Creedmoor, and a .338 Lapua Magnum, three for less than the price of one AI in one caliber, and... the number 1 reason... whose precision rifle stock is not "plastic" these days?

[LRRPF52]

I have spent weeks firing the SRS from 0900 to 1700 daily, mostly .338 LM and .308, with a few .300 WM and .243 thrown in.

You do have to re-learn how to manipulate the bolt, but once you adjust to the SRS's bolt using the open palm forward technique, it is actually easier for me to operate the bolt/rapid bolt manipulate, than a stard manual turn bolt action. The reason is that my hand lifts the bolt when it comes up naturally, and the 1st metacarpal can be used to bring the bolt back.

The triggers on the SRS are nothing like a bullpup trigger, and are quite nice. They are very light, with a very short travel. The guns went through the normal teething issues any new design will go through, and I think that evolution has brought out a lot of great features in the SRS-A1, which feels like a different rifle to me. Will be interesting to see what the debut at SHOT next week.