Testing of M9 replacement to start next year

[Tony Williams]

AS KentuckyBuddha points out, the only thing necessary to change in the Rock Island offering is the barrel and spring combo from 22TCM to 9mm.

Are all 9x19 magazines the same? It seems possible that while the Rock Island .22 TCM magazine is suitable for 9x19, it may not necessarily be the case that all 9x19 magazines are suitable for .22 TCM.

The .22 TCM is the same length as the .38 Super Auto. I expect 9x19 will fit into .38 SA magazines but not necessarily vice versa.

[KentuckyBuddha]

Are all 9x19 magazines the same? It seems possible that while the Rock Island .22 TCM magazine is suitable for 9x19, it may not necessarily be the case that all 9x19 magazines are suitable for .22 TCM.

The .22 TCM is the same length as the .38 Super Auto. I expect 9x19 will fit into .38 SA magazines but not necessarily vice versa.

Oh heavens no, there are quite a number of different 9mm magazines and it would be reasonable to conclude there would be a bit of variance in them. One would expect them to all hold and feed the same 9x19 round but obviously there would be subtle differences in the inside dimensions of different magazines for different weapons, and perhaps even between those made by different makers of mags for the same weapon, I am sure.

I thought 22TCM was supposed to be slightly shorter, no?

[Tooreal]

As to pistols in an offensive CQB environment, way too little firepower. 5.56 carbines have less over-penetration because of frag threshold. CAG figured this out decades ago, and started dumping the MP5's in favor of Colt Commando carbines for CQB.
Last edited by LRRPF52; 09-10-2013 at 01:13 PM.

I agree with LRRPF52, the 7.62x25 is a really Fast & effective round that could probably be easily pushed to speeds fast enough to penetrate kevlar, with the right bullet design that is!! And if I'm not mistaken isn't it a 30 Caliber bullet, or so very close? Such as either a .308 or .309 diameter bullet?
If it is than isn't it possible that we could make pistol Brass from Once fired Lake City Brass? That's how a Lot of people make their 300 Blackout Brass and it works Great!!

The Military could use the Honey Badger as a close Quarters clearing weapon just as it is designed for doing, and with solid Brass 100 Grain 300 Blackout Bullets Pushing Supersonic Speeds, don't you think we could develop a round that would work Great for penetrating kevlar yet also Fragmenting if it Hit several layers of Drywall..
Federal has a New 9mm Bullet like this and it is Awesome. Lehigh Defense makes some Great Fragmenting Subsonic Ammunition.

With our current Technology it's Amazing what we are capable of doing, if there is No Underlying Agenda keeping us from doing it!!!

[stanc]

...the 7.62x25 is a really Fast & effective round that could probably be easily pushed to speeds fast enough to penetrate kevlar, with the right bullet design that is!!

Certainly it could. But, so can 9x19 and .45 ACP.

[KentuckyBuddha]

Hard to imagine speed is going to do it with those diameters alone if this stuff isn't fast enough. 2,000 fps for 9mm seems pretty quick to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3m0OZ_MbA



If it is doable, I suppose shape is going to have to be modified to something different. But I wonder if it is possible to get both a good shape for that job as well as reliable feeding.

[stanc]

MagSafe used to make 9x19 FMJ ammo with a very lightweight bullet @ 2000+ fps.

KTW made 9x19 ammo with a Teflon-coated, bronze bullet @ more modest velocity.

I tested both against Level II Kevlar, and they went through like the proverbial hot knife in butter.

Swedish military m/39B 9x19 has a lead core, with very thick jacket, and reportedly defeats soft body armor.

IIRC, Czech military 9x19 steel core defeated PASGT armor in testing done by the author of a book on military small arms. The title was something like Testing the War Weapons.

[babue]

The 22 TCM was designed to run in a 45acp length action not a 9mm length action. The powder capacity would have been to small using the 9mm case to get the velocity desired. Any firearm designed to run 45acp could accept the 22 TCM round but would need magazines capable of feeding a 9mm case diameter. Magazines made for running a 38 Super/9mm round in a 1911 will feed the TCM round as long as it does not use a spacer in the mag for the 9mm. Most handgun designs that are made of 9mm will not accept a 45acp length round, so the number of possible guns that could be converted to run the 22 TCM is really small.

[Tony Williams]

The Russian 9x19 AP rounds can penetrate some levels of hard armour as well as soft. The 7N31 (very high pressure) hits nearly 2000 fps from a pistol barrel.

[45r]

Probably be 9mm and suppressor friendly.
I like a good 45 or 10mm 1911 myself.

[Trooper]

The one round that is of interest is the 6.5x25 which is basically the same size as the 9mm. The goal seems to be for a PDW with 10" barrel being able to accurately hit out to 300 meters. http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PDWs.htm