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Tedward Wrote:I disagree with the twins. I have 5 different manufactures of 6.5 bolts. The AA has a fish hook milling under the lugs, so does my AR Stoner. They are all close in appearance but that is the only difference. It isn't a structural difference but a "noticeable" difference. Also the lip on the bolt face is different. The LBC has less flat surface than any other manufacture. Again nothing with bolt face depth but appearance is different.[ATTACH=CONFIG]3657[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]3658[/ATTACH] Far left is AA and the used one on far right is AR-Stoner. Second from the end on the right and used is my LBC, I used that on my Beowulf and it works great. Notice how thin the flat surface is, the edge is angled more on the LBC leaving less flat surface rather than squared off like all the others.
Tedward,
That is a Hard Use AA bolt, is it not? I specifically stated he was not using that bolt. He has always used Grendel spec bolts, and the bolts that I compared were before there was a Hard Use bolt. I had one of the original Hard Use bolts, and have had Grendel bolts dating from the first generation through current generation. At one point I even managed to acquire one of the prototype first generation bolts. I've also had several different prototypes, including the proto Hard Use bolt.
I should have been more clear, in that Les Baer has always used Grendel spec bolts, and the two I examined were identical. However, I do not know if he uses the same current manufacturer as AA, or if he ever has. The two bolts I examined were certainly identical, both to the owner and to me.
I have also noticed similar discrepancies on 5.56 bolts, sometimes even from the same manufacturer, but produced at different times.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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bwaites Wrote:Tedward,
That is a Hard Use AA bolt, is it not? I specifically stated he was not using that bolt. He has always used Grendel spec bolts, and the bolts that I compared were before there was a Hard Use bolt. I had one of the original Hard Use bolts, and have had Grendel bolts dating from the first generation through current generation. At one point I even managed to acquire one of the prototype first generation bolts. I've also had several different prototypes, including the proto Hard Use bolt.
I should have been more clear, in that Les Baer has always used Grendel spec bolts, and the two I examined were identical. However, I do not know if he uses the same current manufacturer as AA, or if he ever has. The two bolts I examined were certainly identical, both to the owner and to me.
I have also noticed similar discrepancies on 5.56 bolts, sometimes even from the same manufacturer, but produced at different times.
I wasn't trying to prove you wrong but did notice the difference when I was comparing them. I did get the Hard Use bolt a few weeks back and was just comparing all the manufactures. I haven't been in this industry long and haven't been comparing products for years, just was noticing the difference when I got something new and want people to be able to notice the difference in case someone tries to sell them something and it isn't what it's suppose to be.
I was at the gun show and a guy said these are Grendel Bolts. I looked at it and said BS. He said it's a 7.62x39 and there the same. I said no, Grendel is a type 2 bolt and the guy buying it changed his mind and no sale. People are out advertising things and from info gathered on this site has saved me a lot of time in getting the wrong parts and I want to pass along little fish hook symbols so the buyer can tell the difference.
Thats all and not saying anything about your credibility, you are much more knowledgeable and have way more experience in the Grendels than me...
I just wonder if Bill Alexander reads this postings...
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We just received a small batch of bolts from AA and these look the same as the LBC. No difference we can detect. No compression stamp "fish hook" on this batch although last year they did have them. Measurements we did were the same between them within .002".
"Precision - The Pinnacle of Perfection."
@Precision Firearms
May I ask when you placed your order at AA?
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Oldest unfilled order - about 15 months ago.
"Precision - The Pinnacle of Perfection."
15 months???? Bill Alexander can´t be serious! Whats their backlog?? One gazillon dollars??
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That isn't Bill Alexander...that is a different company entirely.
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What do you mean a different company? Those bolts are on ordered from Alexander Arms since early last year.
"Precision - The Pinnacle of Perfection."
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I had thought he was under the impression somehow you were Bill Alexander. I should give zie germans more credit huh? Es tut mir so leid.
I get now that his bits are the hold up on your production. Apologies.
@KentuckyBuddha
I tell you something...I`ll leave my order open at AA just to add some bucks to their one gazillion dollar backlog and to compare (and laugh about) order- and delivery date.
In the meantime I will design, draw and manufacture my own 6.5mm Grendel Bolt! It will be made from 42CrMo4 / 1.7225 Steel, tensile strength app. 1200 N/mm². 100% Made in Germany, hardened to 55-60 HRC, CrN PVD coated for highest abrasion resistance and lowest possible friction.
Pictures will follow in three to four weeks.
Cheers
Zie German
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I have lived in Germany for three years before. If zie germans make bolts handgemacht aus meisterhand....you can count me in good sir. When a guy put my car tires on with a torque wrench I knew you people were culturally nuts and were perfect for the purpose of making machines that are of marvelous quality.
I miss it very much...and I kid you not...this very day I went well out of my way to get an authentic brotchen. : )
@KentuckyBuddha
1. I like your post!
2. You are right!
3. I`ll take this as an order, you got a PM!
4. No German changes tires without a torque wrench!
I actually did call LB and was told that they did have Grendel bolts, however they were stripped and that they didnt have any extractors. Nor could they tell me when extractors would be coming in. As a side note, since I dont have a bolt for Krieger to headspace from, I decided to have them just send me the barrel unchambered. I figure once all this market bullshit has settled down, I'll find someone to chamber, headspace the extension, and ream a gas port for me. Maybe I'll just get my own reamer based on the specific bullet I want to use.
@all
I talked with my master-gunsmith, we will definately manufacture some 6.5mm Grendel Bolts (including extractor). Specs:
Material: 42CrMo4 / 1.7225 High Strength Steel
Face depth of 0.134 +/-
Treatment: plasma-nitrided
Coating: chromium nitride PVD
PM me if you are interested!
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Kohoki Wrote:@all
I talked with my master-gunsmith, we will definately manufacture some 6.5mm Grendel Bolts (including extractor). Specs:
Material: 42CrMo4 / 1.7225 High Strength Steel
Face depth of 0.134 +/-
Treatment: plasma-nitrided
Coating: chromium nitride PVD
PM me if you are interested!
How much are we talking?
Do you have any information on the mechanical properties and chemical composition of 42CrMo4?
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin
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Kohoki Wrote:@all
I talked with my master-gunsmith, we will definately manufacture some 6.5mm Grendel Bolts (including extractor). Specs:
Material: 42CrMo4 / 1.7225 High Strength Steel
Face depth of 0.134 +/-
Treatment: plasma-nitrided
Coating: chromium nitride PVD
PM me if you are interested!
We have an AMERICAN MADE product in the works by a reputable manufacture. Check out other post on Bolt Group Buy.
Good luck!
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Don't get this going again....
Guess you can if your bored though...
@Tedward
I thought these grendel bolts weren´t available anywhere, if threre is a supplier overseas (who maybe ships to Germany) I wouldn´t take the effort to manufacture my own!!! I thought about that and started it when I found out the lead time of AA.
Lets wait until I got the first items on my table in maybe a week, I will start with let´s say 5 - 10 bolts (actually I only wanted to make one/two for myself). The number depends on the PMs I will receive.
@Cory
42CrMo4 / 1.7225 Steel, tensile strength app. 1200 N/mm²
Chemical composion: C 0,42 / Si < 0,4 / Mn 0,75 / Cr 1,05 / Mo 0,23 / P 0,025 / S 0,035
More Details here, I think you know Thyssen Krupp
R = yield strength / tensile strength
A = breaking elongation
This is exactly the steel I will use for my bolts.
A translation of the datasheet can be found here: 1.7225
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Kohoki Wrote:@Tedward
I thought these grendel bolts weren´t available anywhere, if threre is a supplier overseas (who maybe ships to Germany) I wouldn´t take the effort to manufacture my own!!! I thought about that and started it when I found out the lead time of AA.
Lets wait until I got the first items on my table in maybe a week, I will start with let´s say 5 - 10 bolts (actually I only wanted to make one/two for myself). The number depends on the PMs I will receive.
@Cory
42CrMo4 / 1.7225 Steel, tensile strength app. 1200 N/mm²
Chemical composion: C 0,42 / Si < 0,4 / Mn 0,75 / Cr 1,05 / Mo 0,23 / P 0,025 / S 0,035
More Details here, I think you know Thyssen Krupp
R = yield strength / tensile strength
A = breaking elongation
This is exactly the steel I will use for my bolts.
A translation of the datasheet can be found here: 1.7225
Kohoki,
I definitely understand because they haven't been available but from a couple sources with limited distribution. As for AA, you do have a better chance to make one yourself..
Like I listed, there is a manufacture helping out the 6.5 Gendel Family and going out of his normal production of Bolt Carriers and other Bolt sizes to make the Grendel Bolt's. He will be starting this soon so if you watch the other post on the Forum here, Group Bolt Buy, you will see the status and once there available, that too.
One thing in USA, there is a clause NOT to SHIP CERTAIN FIREARM PARTS OUT of USA. I do not know the laws but that might be an issue for you getting parts. If you were in the military, it could ship thru a APO but that is the only way I would ship out of the states. Others may know more on this.
Good Luck...Also I too have been to Germany many times years ago and only learned a little of the German Language, Good-n-slick, Good-n-firm and Good-n-tight...
Also BMW's and Mercedes show how well Germany Engineering is...
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