Tell us about your Midwayusa AR Stoner barrel.

[Tedward]

Thanks Ridgerider and Xcountryrider.

[XcountryRider]

As i said the barrels are made in the USA according to midway.

[XcountryRider]

A google search revealed that the admin at beyond556.com spoke with Steve Saturn peronnelly in May and confirmed they do make the AR Stoner Grendel barrels. That settles that.

[Tedward]

A google search revealed that the admin at beyond556.com spoke with Steve Saturn peronnelly in May and confirmed they do make the AR Stoner Grendel barrels. That settles that.

I had that discussion with Lindsay Saturn in the spring too that Liberty is there division that sells BULK to distributors. Liberty does not sell to the public according to Lindsay. She told me they make changes to there customers request but wouldn't say Liberty did make the AR-Stoner but lead me to believe that. I'll go with the May verdict on beyond556, CASE CLOSED....

Thanks Xcounty

[PA_Allen]

I'm curious about other people experiences with AR Stoner barrels. I had two of my Grendels hooked up to a chrony for the first time today and i was getting unusually fast velocities. I need more chrony time with various loads to get a clearer picture of my speeds but they look pretty good. How is your AR Stoner barrel barrel? Any experiences to share?

Back to the original question,
My 16" AR Stoner (liberty 5R) barrel has worked out just fine. Fine accuracy and velocities right in line with expected.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...no-results

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ge-Results

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...lts-update

I've got a feeling the deer are going to hate my Stoner barrel.

Best,
PA

[XcountryRider]

Back to the original question,
My 16" AR Stoner (liberty 5R) barrel has worked out just fine. Fine accuracy and velocities right in line with expected.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...no-results



http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ge-Results

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...lts-update

I've got a feeling the deer are going to hate my Stoner barrel.

Best,
PA

What velocity are you getting with a 123gr SST?

[PA_Allen]

What velocity are you getting with a 123gr SST?

Hey XcountryRider

123 SST, 28 gr XBR-8208, 2430 fps from my 16"

See the first link in my previous post for more info.

Best,
PA

[Tedward]

Hey XcountryRider

123 SST, 28 gr XBR-8208, 2430 fps from my 16"

See the first link in my previous post for more info.

Best,
PA

Appreciate the links. Been reading them from front to current. Glad to see the 16" is working out. Here in VA that will be a great woods gun and my 24" will be for the fields.

Also looking at the 1st link, the groups (123 SST, 5 shots, 200 yds) you have in the triangle area. Note marked down to the left says 1/2"moa. How big are each of the squares? 1"x1" or 1/2" x 1/2"?? if there 1"x1" as I think, doesn't that make the group a 1.5moa to 2? I might not understand how to read the moa because i'm getting confused on my groups. I thought it was to be @1moa all 3 rounds would need to be inside 1 square.

thanks, need some splainin here....

[PA_Allen]

Appreciate the links. Been reading them from front to current. Glad to see the 16" is working out. Here in VA that will be a great woods gun and my 24" will be for the fields.

Also looking at the 1st link, the groups (123 SST, 5 shots, 200 yds) you have in the triangle area. Note marked down to the left says 1/2"moa. How big are each of the squares? 1"x1" or 1/2" x 1/2"?? if there 1"x1" as I think, doesn't that make the group a 1.5moa to 2? I might not understand how to read the moa because i'm getting confused on my groups. I thought it was to be @1moa all 3 rounds would need to be inside 1 square.

thanks, need some splainin here....

Hi Tedward,
The grid squares are 1" and the group was 1.87" center to center or about 0.9 MOA at 200 yds. See the note to the lower right of the black triangle. The "up 0.5 MOA" note was a mental note to me that I had adjisted the scope up 0.5 MOA from the previous gruop fired in the center of the target. I often number my groups on a cheat sheet and write down any sight adjustments I make between groups so I can study them when I get home (and recall later what I did). I hope that makes sense.

- PA

[Tedward]

Yes, makes sence. I thought that and got confused on the notes you made. I'm glad i asked though. I was not dividing in half for being at 200 yards. .900 is good especially with a 16" barrel. I have been sighting in my 24" Stoner and getting less then 1" on 3 round groups with a straggler that will be out 1-1/4" here and there. Once I got everything sighted last time I was doing pretty good so moved to my 150yard targets (all the room i have out back right now). I'm getting those at 1'' so if I can divide by .75 I'm doing ok for me. Need more practice and room for improvements and just trying to learn more. No coaches or co-shooters here, just a lot of reading and don't get to the range alot. And when I get there I find some of them know less than me. With all the reading here over the months I have learned alot and know when to call BS on someone, politely....

anyhow, thanks for the information and hope to see you on the form again soon.

[XcountryRider]

Hey XcountryRider

123 SST, 28 gr XBR-8208, 2430 fps from my 16"

See the first link in my previous post for more info.

Best,
PA

Have you measured with factory SST? Hornady says 2350fps MV from a 16in barrel.

[LRRPF52]

Have you measured with factory SST? Hornady says 2350fps MV from a 16in barrel.

That AR15 provided to Hornady was a 14.5" with permanently attached muzzle device bringing it to 16" length. If you look in the Hornady 8th Edition, it shows that they used an AA 14.5" Grendel. Guess what the max velocities are for the 123gr A-MAX in the 8th Edition with A2520? 2350fps

My 16" Grendel shoots Hornady 123gr Factory A-MAX at 2460fps, but you really could have enough variation from barrel to barrel to account for these differences. Hornady's site still lists 16" and 24" velocities for their factory loads, with the 16" being at 2350fps.

[PA_Allen]

Have you measured with factory SST? Hornady says 2350fps MV from a 16in barrel.

No, I have not fired any factory loads through my uppers. I think LRRPF52 stated the correct explanation.
Best,
PA

[XcountryRider]

That AR15 provided to Hornady was a 14.5" with permanently attached muzzle device bringing it to 16" length. If you look in the Hornady 8th Edition, it shows that they used an AA 14.5" Grendel. Guess what the max velocities are for the 123gr A-MAX in the 8th Edition with A2520? 2350fps

My 16" Grendel shoots Hornady 123gr Factory A-MAX at 2460fps, but you really could have enough variation from barrel to barrel to account for these differences. Hornady's site still lists 16" and 24" velocities for their factory loads, with the 16" being at 2350fps.

If thats true then they need to correct the MV information.

[XcountryRider]

Here's the thread for beyond556.com that recently confirmed that ARstoner Grendel barrels are made by Liberty/Saturn.

"Steve Satern called me this morning and asked me to correct inaccurate information that was contained within this thread.

AR Stoner barrels are made by Liberty Barrels, not ER Shaw. This includes, but is not limited to, the 6.5 Grendel, 12.7x42 and 6.8 SPC. AR Stoner is a private label brand of Midway USA."

[Ridgerider]

Here's the thread for beyond556.com that recently confirmed that ARstoner Grendel barrels are made by Liberty/Saturn.

"Steve Satern called me this morning and asked me to correct inaccurate information that was contained within this thread.

AR Stoner barrels are made by Liberty Barrels, not ER Shaw. This includes, but is not limited to, the 6.5 Grendel, 12.7x42 and 6.8 SPC. AR Stoner is a private label brand of Midway USA."

Good on you, well done for trying to shut up somebody who professes to know everything and then refuses to answer the questions put to them

[LRRPF52]

If you guys read my post again, nowhere will you find the statement that AR-Stoner "6.5 Grendel" barrels are made outside the US.

If Liberty is in-fact the source for the barrels, they have a good reputation from the board members, and Steve Satern has said in the past that they are a great button-rifled barrel.

It would be nice if Midway advertised that, with a "Made In USA" flag on the page to give customers that added sense of calm. It likely is a business decision with their volumes to not list the barrel maker, when the time comes for them to have to source from someone else. If the customer is used to seeing one source, then it switches, that can lead to apprehension, even though there is no need as long as the barrel maker is reputable.

For example, when I order barrels from Fulton Armory, they are clearly listed as either Criterion, or not. Criterion makes amazing button-rifled barrels.

Also, Liberty is not a button-rifled version of Satern as many believed, but another company who Satern helped market their barrels, since Liberty didn't have the business infrastructure to market and sell, but they made a nice button-rifled pipe. Steve Satern is well-known among hi-power shooters as a great source for single-point, cut-rifled barrels worthy of national-level competition.

One thing that has come up in this is the 5R rifling engraving. I have only known 5R rifling to be done on single-point, cut-rifled barrels, but I could be mistaken. I have owned several 5R cut-rifled barrels, and am somewhat familiar with the history behind Obermeyer's patented 5R rifling. This is the first I have heard that someone is button-rifling in 5R.

For the record, I purchased my AA 6.5 Grendel barrel/bolt combo in 2009 for $269 from Midway. I have no professional relationships with Midway's competitors, and have been an active, satisfied Midway customer since 2003. The fake NiB BCG experience, and removal of my review put my smell-test meter on hyper-sensitive. If you wonder about my motives, know that 20 out of 50 customers (whose reviews are still there) have rated that fake/unsat NiB BCG with 1 star, all stating the same experience I had-flaking of the finish within a few rounds. How many of them would have wasted their money and time if they had seen my review?

I think my initial reaction to the AR-Stoner brand name was, "Oh, before he died, Gene Stoner blessed off on Midway to use his when marketing their own brand of AR parts?" Then there is no claim as such explaining the AR-Stoner name, and I wonder about the motive behind it. This is coming from someone who has spent hours on the phone with Midway and having nothing but a top-notch, professional exchange with them working for a dealer, as well as being a long-time customer. Why does that seem to change when the AR-Stoner brand comes up, at least in my point of view?

Was it done to add more clout to economy products to give them an air of higher quality? Is it an attempt to mimic Reed Knight's Stoner Rifle brand, which he directly worked with Gene Stoner on before his passing? That's just what goes through my mind as someone who has been into AR's since the 1980's. I don't have those answers. The whole thing has a feeling that is out of character for Midway, in my opinion. It's like a great family you love to visit, with a weird uncle who lives in the basement that usually behaves, but occasionally has a spastic outburst of unpredictable profanity and incontinence. If you say anything about it, people in the neighborhood look at you like a turd, as the family is wonderful.

[Ridgerider]

It not just about the Stoner barrel as many have confirmed where they are being made, just do a little checking . You say and I quote "If you guys read my post again, nowhere will you find the statement that AR-Stoner "6.5 Grendel" barrels are made outside the US.yet in your previous post you imply and I quote "Midway usually expects a 50% margin on their products, so do the math based on their pricing and you can get an idea of where they might be sourcing the "AR-Stoner" pipes from.

When I see a lot of their 5.56 barrels for $159.99, $119.99, or even $104.99, then figure-in even a 30% margin, there's no way those barrels are made in the US or Western/Central/Northern Europe. We're either looking at Central America or Asia is my best guess." end of quote. I am criticizing you on your post about barrels being made in S America or Asia for $99 etc etc and how could they be possibly made in the USA at that price. At least I gave you an opportunity to check prices with ESS Solutions in Rhode Island and correct your statement but you have chosen to ignore that.You state and I quote "If anyone doubts that Asian barrels and AR15 parts are in the market, I've seen Dirtier than Cheap openly advertise $99 "M4" barrels in their catalog, and have seen distributor online catalog pages for AR15 parts, including sub-standard uppers, BCG's, LPK's, fasteners, etc. from Taiwan."end quote. Please confirm where you claim distributors are importing Taiwanese parts so that we all can avoid those distributors and not keep it just to yourself as I thought the idea of a forum was to help and educate.

[Tedward]

Ok, the uncle in the basement started typing and got emotional on his opinions, we still love the uncle.....

We know everything is not always best worded and compared too when writing on The Forums, but we know where AR-Stoner's come from now.

[LRRPF52]

It not just about the Stoner barrel as many have confirmed where they are being made, just do a little checking . You say and I quote "If you guys read my post again, nowhere will you find the statement that AR-Stoner "6.5 Grendel" barrels are made outside the US.yet in your previous post you imply and I quote "Midway usually expects a 50% margin on their products, so do the math based on their pricing and you can get an idea of where they might be sourcing the "AR-Stoner" pipes from.

When I see a lot of their 5.56 barrels for $159.99, $119.99, or even $104.99, then figure-in even a 30% margin, there's no way those barrels are made in the US or Western/Central/Northern Europe. We're either looking at Central America or Asia is my best guess." end of quote. I am criticizing you on your post about barrels being made in S America or Asia for $99 etc etc and how could they be possibly made in the USA at that price. At least I gave you an opportunity to check prices with ESS Solutions in Rhode Island and correct your statement but you have chosen to ignore that.You state and I quote "If anyone doubts that Asian barrels and AR15 parts are in the market, I've seen Dirtier than Cheap openly advertise $99 "M4" barrels in their catalog, and have seen distributor online catalog pages for AR15 parts, including sub-standard uppers, BCG's, LPK's, fasteners, etc. from Taiwan."end quote. Please confirm where you claim distributors are importing Taiwanese parts so that we all can avoid those distributors and not keep it just to yourself as I thought the idea of a forum was to help and educate.

Everyone has the opportunity to crack open their uppers, look on top of their carrier keys, and confirm that they at least have Taiwanese "YFS" fasteners holding their carrier keys to the carrier. I have several that made it into my guns before I learned about it. I secure them well with heat-resistant sealant and a staking tool specifically for AR15 carriers, and have had no issues. Almost every AR15 parts distributor will likely have "YFS" fasteners in their inventory. The next question is, what about MIM'd parts for my LPK? Where was my barrel extension made? My extractor? Springs? Extension tube?

Here's a 1 Star review of one of those $104 AR-Stoner barrels: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/834998/...der-834998

The barrel came with minor rust on the inside and outside. The rifling inside the barrel is very shallow and poorly done compared to any other AR barrel I've seen. I took the barrel to my local gunsmith and he urged me to return it.

In all the AR15, M16, and M4 barrels I have seen since the 1980's, I have only seen that type of shallow rifling on a military or high-volume gun that was abused on FULL AUTO, or had a round count into the tens of thousands. If a barrel shows up rusty and rifled like that, it is indicative of the type of poor QC one would expect in a 3rd-world country, especially in a massive push to attempt to satiate the new wave of demand for AR15's post-Sandy Hook.

We have seen spectacular kabooms recently, especially ones with barrel extension failures, with minimal bolt damage, indicating the extension as the point of failure, and no name to pin the liability on. That's what bothers me when I see barrels priced at around $100 or less. Like I said, I have seen CTD ads where they clearly indicated that the "M4" barrels "just like the real GI!" were imported.

I would like to hear it from Midway that they are using US or European-Made barrels that meet certain ISO standards, from a reputable or recognizable manufacturer, using the SAAMI chamber. That's what has stopped me from purchasing any of the AR-Stoner barrels, combined with my experience with the highly questionable and fail-ridden BCG advertised as Nickel Boron Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group, sold at a premium price BTW. Knowing what I have relayed here, does anyone still think it would be fine to buy one of those $104 "M4" barrels under the AR-Stoner brand? Anyone ready to shell out $199 for a Nickel Boron AR-Stoner "Enhanced" Bolt Carrier Group? They still sell 'em.