Off-Duty British Soldier Ran Over, then Beheaded by 2 Islamic Radicals in London

[Nukes]

+1…but you forgot to mention he was also a pedophile (one of his many wives was only 9 years old)

So... it would be a bad thing if a religion teaches that intercourse with a girl 3 years and 1 day old constitutes a valid betrothal even without her consent... and a bad thing if a religion teaches that intercourse with a boy under 9 years old is not considered a significant sexual act... and a bad thing if a religion practices mezizah b'peh (metzizah b'peh) especially when infant boys die from it in New York City and elsewhere?

You miss the key points. All peoples have their evil-doers. In the case of Catholics, the evil-doers (heretical, racist, and pedophile priests and bishops are salient examples) act AGAINST the Faith. In the case of certain religions, the evil they do is IN ACCORD with their creed.

Islam is not alone in exhorting evil. If Islam is fair game for Koran quotes and criticism and heinous examples, so are other religions open to quotes and criticism of their "holy" texts and heinous crimes inspired by their creed.

[TheOTHERmaninblack]

So... it would be a bad thing if a religion teaches that intercourse with a girl 3 years and 1 day old constitutes a valid betrothal even without her consent... and a bad thing if a religion teaches that intercourse with a boy under 9 years old is not considered a significant sexual act... and a bad thing if a religion practices mezizah b'peh (metzizah b'peh) especially when infant boys die from it in New York City and elsewhere?

You miss the key points. All peoples have their evil-doers. In the case of Catholics, the evil-doers (heretical, racist, and pedophile priests and bishops are salient examples) act AGAINST the Faith. In the case of certain religions, the evil they do is IN ACCORD with their creed.

Islam is not alone in exhorting evil. If Islam is fair game for Koran quotes and criticism and heinous examples, so are other religions open to quotes and criticism of their "holy" texts and heinous crimes inspired by their creed.

What is this, a video game puzzle? I don't suppose you could just spit it out?

[Nukes]

Judging from past over-reactions, not all the "big strong shooter mans" [sic] are able to calmly discuss well-referenced bland facts, so we need to be delicate with their sensitivities. Far be it from me to blurt out inconvenient comparisons that contradict what they "know" from television. [laughing]

[LRRPF52]

Thread derailed.

[BjornF16]

Thread derailed.

Of course…how else to get anti-semite comments onto to the thread.

We were discussing the brutality of Islam, especially pertaining to the attack in London.

[LRRPF52]

I'm failing to understand the logic in how this incident would lead to a train of thought where the discussion spins off to another agenda about some other unidentified religion that is as bad or worse than the mohammedan cult, especially when nobody else is attacking with provocation, and beheading innocents, while proudly and openly proclaiming that they will fight us in the name of their idol.

I'm aware of a laundry list of different ideas about how this or that religion or sect is responsible for crimes x, y, and z, but relating it to this discussion is a very far stretch.

In the spirit of the 2A forum, it's sad that the UK neutered themselves long ago pertaining individual rights to self-protection. The US's Bill of Rights is largely base off the Founders' experience with English Common Law, and the King's violation of it.

[bwaites]

Nukes doesn't like some of the ancient Jewish customs still being practiced. From a medical/ethical viewpoint, neither do I. But their INTENT is not to harm, harm happens because of unsafe sanitary practices. When we KNOW what can cause disease, and deliberately don't do everything we can to avoid it, then there is some culpability. However, it is never their INTENT to do harm.

Unlike Islam, Jewish culture does not advocate the death of all who do not convert, nor does it proclaim that they are less than human. Their belief that they are a chosen people is biblical, so if you believe in the Bible, they are.

However, they do not intentionally harm others, at least they don't harm others who are not trying to harm them.

[BjornF16]

I'm failing to understand the logic in how this incident would lead to a train of thought where the discussion spins off to another agenda about some other unidentified religion that is as bad or worse than the mohammedan cult, especially when nobody else is attacking with provocation, and beheading innocents, while proudly and openly proclaiming that they will fight us in the name of their idol.

I'm aware of a laundry list of different ideas about how this or that religion or sect is responsible for crimes x, y, and z, but relating it to this discussion is a very far stretch.

In the spirit of the 2A forum, it's sad that the UK neutered themselves long ago pertaining individual rights to self-protection. The US's Bill of Rights is largely base off the Founders' experience with English Common Law, and the King's violation of it.

Concur. I was living in Wales when the Dunblane, Scotland incident occurred and I was really shocked at the attitudes supporting gun control (even amongst those who were in the Gun Club) within the RAF. Shortly before my tour was over, the UK passed their gun ban and right after I left the hunting estate down the road (where I got my Springer Spaniel hunting companion) was raided and all their guns confiscated.

[montana]

As I write this my friend called me to tell me he is house sitting for a gentleman in his 60's who shot a 39 year old intruder in his house yesterday. The home owner came home and found him in his house. He is a concealed carry weapon holder and pulled out his 40 SW and shot him one time center chest after the intruder charged him after he ignored his command to freeze. This criminal apparently posed as a vacuum cleaner salesman and if nobody was home would break into the homes.

[Nukes]

I beg to differ, Bill.

Page upon page hammering the evils of Islam and venting bloodlust against Muslims, no problem here. BUT a couple of very mild mentions that Islam is not the only religion that teaches evil is "derailment." A glaring double-standard.

Here is a single standard. I condemn all evil, all genocide, all bloodlust. One standard for all mankind. No exceptions. So, let us put a sharp eye on Judaism.

When I first read quotes of the genocidal Torah imprecations, I was so skeptical of the authenticity of the quotes that I was outraged. I went down to the Judaica section of one of our local university libraries to prove the quotes were falsified. Imagine my chagrin when I discovered the quotes were accurate and quoted in correct context.

There are plenty of religious and non-religious Jews who thankfully eschew the genocidal orthodox imprecations. BUT from the Torah She Beal'peh ("Oral Torah" committed to writing as the Talmud and related "holy" books long after Christ) through the great "sages" like the "Great Rambam" (Maimonides) to influential contemporary rabbis like Ovadia Yosef and Eliyahu and large influential and global Hasidic groups like Chabad, Orthodox Judaism definitely does teach that only Jews are human and does teach that "Even the best of the Gentiles should all be killed."

I reiterate, plenty of Jews do eschew those racist and genocidal imprecations, but the genocidal exhortations are no vestigial anachronism relegated to a dusty corner of history. The roots are indeed ancient, but the Israeli press (quite unlike the US press) commonly reports on the activities of the current proponents of genocide. Those beliefs are the prevalent beliefs among the Likudniks and "settlers," just as those genocidal precepts were deeply ingrained in the Irgun and Stern Gang Zionist terrorists. The Master Race creed has inspired innumerable heinous terrorist acts that are sanitized or justified if they are even reported at all in the US press.

Here I will offer only a tiny fraction of the immense amount of proof texts showing that the Master Race creed is both ancient and current and influential and supported by the Israeli government. I provide references so that you may do as I did—check them.

The old:

"You are adam ["man"], but goyim [gentiles] are not called adam ["man"]." Kerithoth 6b

“The seed of the goyim is like an animal.” Sanhedrin 74b

“All Gentile children are animals.” Yebamoth 98a

God created them [goyim] in the form of men for the glory of Israel… for the sole end of ministering unto them [the Jews] day and night. Nor can they ever be relieved of this service. It is becoming to the son of a king [an Israelite] that animals in their natural form and animals in the form of human beings should minister unto him. Midrash Talpioth 225a

"...'living soul' designates Israel because they are children of the Almighty, and their souls, which are holy, come from Him. From whence come the souls of other peoples? R[abbi] Eleazar said: 'They obtain souls from those sides of the left which convey impurity, and therefore they are all impure and defile those who have contact with them.'...'living soul' refers to Israel, who have holy living souls from above, and 'cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth,' to the other peoples who are not 'living soul," but who are as we have said." Bereshith 47a

“Gentile souls are of a completely different and inferior order. They are totally evil, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever… their material abundance derives from supernal refuse. Indeed, they themselves derive from refuse, which is why they are more numerous than the Jews…” Abraham Foxbrunner. Habad: The Hasidism of Schneur Zalman of Lyady. Northvale NJ: Jason Aronson Inc., 1983. Pp. 108-109.

Chabad’s rabbis discuss Maimonides’ advice on killing Gentiles:
“…although our Sages declared, ‘Kill even the best of the gentiles,’ and that, as mentioned above, the Rambam [Maimonides] states in Hilchot Melachim 8:10 that any gentile who does not accept the seven universal laws commanded to Noah and his descendants should be slain. These directives, however. can be interpreted to apply only in a time of war or in a time when the Jews have control over the gentiles.”

Scroll down to the Commentary on Halacha 1:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cd...er-Ten.htm

"It is a mitzvah [religious duty], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minim [Christians], and apikorsim, ["heretics," i.e., sincere Judaic converts to Christianity] and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot." [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Chapter 10]

The rabbis teach that Jesus Himself was an idolater [Sanhedrin 43a, 107b], claiming that Jesus even worshipped a brick. [Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 67a, 107b] There are, of course, other numerous scurrilous accusations against Jesus in the Talmud and rabbinical literature. Though the passages have been denied and expurgated Talmud editions have been published, often using code words for Jesus, Princeton Professor and Director of JUDAIC Studies Peter Schafer has examined dozens of Talmud editions in the original and vernacular languages. Schafer not only adduces the explicit references to Jesus of Nazareth, but he also traces the code words used in the Talmud editions expurgated and sanitized for Gentile consumption. Schafer traces from edition to tractate to folio how "Balaam," "that man," "the carpenter," "ben Pandera" (son of Pandera), the blank spaces, and the rest of the code words refer to Jesus of Nazareth. In his book "Jesus in the Talmud" (ISBN 13: 978-0691129266) Schafer has affirmed that the Talmud teaches that that Jesus was an idolater [Sanhedrin 43a, 107b], was a "mamzer" [bastard] conceived adulterously in "niddah" [menstrual filth] by a Roman soldier named Pandera [Kallah 51a] of a whore [Sanhedrin 106a] and that He is now in Hell boiling in feces and, in some editions because Jesus is accused of sexual perversion, semen [Gittin 57a]. Schafer documents much more, including the Talmud claim that the Sanhedrin justly executed Jesus because he was an idolater [Sanhedrin 43a, 107b] who worshipped a brick [Sanhedrin 67a], even boasting that the Sanhedrin overcame Roman opposition to the execution of Jesus [Sanhedrin 43a].

Why is this important? Because idolaters are liable for execution by beheading under halacha, Torah Law. The Jewish Encyclopedia affirms that the punishment for Christian "idolatry" is beheading. See:
"Laws, Noachian," Jewish Encyclopedia entry,
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.j...3&letter=L



The present:

The Complete Guide to Killing Non-Jews
Ma’ariv 09.11.09 (p. 2) by Roi Sharon
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/964/1...1&tmp=3416
Here is a translation of report in the Maariv newspaper of Israel
http://didiremez.wordpress.com/2009/11/0...-non-jews/
funded by the Israeli government:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1128767.html

Rabbi Eliyahu exhorts the killing of women and children:
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=63137

“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel… In Israel, death has no dominion over them... With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew. Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created.”
“Yosef: Gentiles exist only to serve Jews” by Jonah Mandel, Jerusalem Post, 10/18/2010
http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishN...?id=191782

"I too, like Hitler, believe in the power of the blood idea" -Chaim Nachman Bailik, Israel’s national poet, in “The Present Hour” (1934).

Acting out:

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1] at the eulogy for Dr. Baruch Goldstein, Kach Party terrorist who used a machine gun to murder at least 39 Palestinians worshipping at Cave of the Patriarchs mosque in Hebron. Rabbis praised his mass murder and then Prime Minister Yitshak Rabin gave permission for a memorial to honor Goldstein. Here's a picture of the shrine to the mass murderer:
http://pro.corbis.com/search/Enlargement...6545F0E%7D


"Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered... but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport," Hedges wrote. His account, coolly factual yet full of passionate intensity, was written not for his own paper but for Harper's Magazine, which sent Hedges to Gaza on his vacation." The Nation, March 11, 2002
Chris Hedges’ “A Gaza Diary: Scenes from the Palestinian Uprising,” Harper’s October 2001
http://harpers.org/archive/2001/10/a-gaza-diary/

Is sniping children for sport (and then sniping their medical rescuers) morally superior to beheading?

Keep your eye on the ball here. The point of this post is to underscore the hypocrisy of appropriately criticizing evil in one group while ignoring, even praising, another group who commit the same evils.

[Nukes]

As I write this my friend called me to tell me he is house sitting for a gentleman in his 60's who shot a 39 year old intruder in his house yesterday. The home owner came home and found him in his house. He is a concealed carry weapon holder and pulled out his 40 SW and shot him one time center chest after the intruder charged him after he ignored his command to freeze. This criminal apparently posed as a vacuum cleaner salesman and if nobody was home would break into the homes.

Good to protect innocent life! Amazing shooting. A charging man can cover a lot of distance in the 1½ seconds of drawing and firing.

[montana]

When my daughter went to Japan she met an old Japaneses war 2 vet at the Nagasaki memorial for the atomic bomb dead. The old vet started swearing at her and the group of American students. The tour guide apologized for this man's out burst. This old vet still held a a lot of hatred towards Americans. The Japanese of ww2 were taught to have exceptional-ism beliefs. This attitude that can manifest itself in individual students that bully other students, in religions, or even political parties with leaders who think they know what is best for others and are ordained by their omnipotence to rule over others. I agree Islam is rotten to the core and I have not seen too many Jew's beheading people on the streets, flying planes into our building or setting off bombs in cities but understanding evil one needs to recognize evil no matter what face it hides behind. We are all people living on this Earth who will find out in due time how insignificant we all are.

Yes Nukes, the older man was a small man in stature who has been fighting cancer and an evil person was stopped by his freedom to exercise his second amendment rights.

[Nukes]

Your post, Montana, makes an important point. It is not the majority of kindly people like the Nagasaki tour guide who make ugly history. It is the minority with maniacal beliefs who act out and make murderous history like the Rape of Nanking. In the case of Japan, it was Yamato-damashii. Most Japanese don't even know about Pearl Harbor, much less the Rape of Nanking. Analogously, most Jews (and their defenders) are completely oblivious to the ravings penned by Rabbis Shimon ben Yohai, Ovadia Yosef, Eliyahu, and "sages" like Maimonides, but it is the minority of "true believers" who have made and are making evil history.

With the world poised on the knife edge of the next world war, the Russian Pacific Fleet now at Cyprus, the US arming Al Queda, and maniacal Likudniks bombing Syria, it is all the more important for the majority of kindly people and their children to understand that, "It takes two to tango." Maniacal Muslims with cleavers are not the only problem in our world and fanning a generalized blood lust against any group is no decent solution.

Whether it is Yamato-damashii, wahabiism, "Oral Torah," "manifest destiny," or "white man's burden," it behooves the majority who are decent people to identify and disempower, not genocide, the minority of maniacs among us. It is the majority who are decent that usually suffer the brunt of war and genocide instigated by the minority of maniacs, so it does not serve the majority of decent people to conceal, defend, or excuse the minority of maniacs among us—no exceptions and no hypocrisy!

[Von Gruff]

This thread has bought out a lot of very different viewpoints but the one overarching theme has been the condemnation of evil and the calling of evil as evil and that is a worthy outcome of the barbarity that initiated the thread. I fear that the only way for me to fully answer some of the points made would be to turn this toward a full theologic discussion and this is not the place for that discussion so I will hopefully conclude with this one conected aspect that may be missing from some of the posts. The one area of much of the foregoing that I would contend with is not that evil has been done in the name of every belief ever held, or that many have done these deeds in the name of God, in whatever form or forms (we musn't forget the animists or the pagans) he, she or they are held but the understandably excepted holy word of God or god or gods from which these evil deeds is the only basis for discussion in whether these deeds were indeed inspired by "God" or by the adulterated word of man.
Of the many references posted above I only see scholars or teachers writings or beliefs but no reference to the Bible with the Old Testament for Judaism or the Old and New Testament for Christianity as such as the excepted revealed word of God that has been over ridden in all of the cases mentioned by the word of man. By taking verses out of context and making them means something that context denies is not the revealed word but mans adulterated self agrandisment.
Forgetting all the hadiths and other suplementary writings, and only using the koran there is a marked difference in how the supossed revealed word enjoines the followers to act toward and think of those who do not or will not follow the same creed.
There have been many excepional-isms over the years from the mongols to the hunns to the nazis and the japanese bent on domination and they all have gone which does not diminish the evil they perpetrated but the mindset that drove them was mans mind using warped words of god to support thier intentions.
Admittadly, Rome used force and many of the same evil methods to enforce its doctrines but they were not much removed from the pagan roots that were incorporated into thier mindset and the ignorance of the actual bible was almost universal with this lack of actual bible understanding lasting right through to the reformation and even then there was a lack of actual Christianity in the outworking of the different factions but IF YOU WERE TO TAKE THE ACTUAL BIBLE AS THE BASE OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING there is no doubt that the actions should have been much different. It is not the Word of God that causes the evil mcommitted in His name but the perverted mind that uses His Word for thier own purpose.
If on the other hand you were to take the actual word of the koran as the basis of understanding of your actiuons then the evil that has been commited in the name of the satanic entity known as allah, then the outpouring of evil everywhere that islam has stained the world with its footprint would still have manefested itself the way it has and continues through the last 14 centuries to today and will do so while it exists.

[LRRPF52]

While various Kabbalistic, Talmud, and Hassidic factions certainly have their views, they are apostates of commission, while the cultural Jews are apostate by omission for not attending synagogue, adhering to the Law of Moses, just like most proclaiming Christ as their Lord know not His Words or Teachings.

You can dig up some of the most revolting oaths and affirmations from all of these groups. The Jesuit Oath that describes killing the pregnant mothers of Protestants, then tearing their fetuses from the wombs and bashing their skulls into the street comes to mind.

The difference is that you don't see anyone from the factions of Jewery or Christianity actually doing these things, while loudly proclaiming God's blessing with their blood-stained hands in the air.

There is one cult that we do see that, where over 50% of its adherents quietly support these types of actions. Even in the hours after this murder of the soldier in the UK, local immigrants defer questions about it to the perception of wrongs against Iraqi women and children, even as England is no longer engaged in Iraq-where I might add the inconvenient detail that most of the jihadists we were fighting there had come from all over the region and elsewhere, to include disillusioned and unemployed Arabs who were looking for fulfillment in Europe, let alone Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Chechnya, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Iran, and Yemen.

To equate Israeli soldiers sniping violent Palestinian thugs with acts like we have seen with these mohammedan coolaid drinkers is another stretch that doesn't pass muster. If you buy every line spouted by Al Jazeera and their highly-successful Information Warfare program, then you can equate the two with little intellectual thought or applied reasoning, but I expect better from someone who has the ability to filter through clear propaganda campaigns.

Yes, the Mossad uses deception as its first priority in warfare. That's how every Eastern mindset works: deception, subterfuge, distraction, and imbalance. Those are very core habits in that part of the world, no matter if you're in the Levant, or in China. Al Qaeda uses the same approach, which is why they recruited mostly Saudi's to hijack airliners on 9/11. Their goal, and that of the Muslim Brotherhood, is to fragment the US-Saudi alliance so they can have their Caliphate.

As the US allies in the Middle East topple one-by-one, whether it be Saddam by our own hand, Mubarak, Gaddafi, & Assad by surrogates, mohammedans will feel more and more emboldened as they transition from claiming their cult means peace, to events like we saw with the attack on the British soldier.

Since Comrade Hussein has helped spread the Arab Spring and the resulting toppling of Egypt, Libya, with Syria in the works, his stance on the 2nd Amendment takes on another twist you probably didn't consider.

[Von Gruff]

Listen to Beck in the video. It is inspiring.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/...or-attack/

[montana]

Listen to Beck in the video. It is inspiring.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/...or-attack/

Von Gruff that video was was the exact same feelings I was having since LRRPF52 started this thread. Recognizing Evil , knowing it exists and being able to stop it when it happens like my friends buddy, who had to defend himself when he was confronted with an intruder in his home is what makes the difference in allowing good to prevail. Thank's for sharing it.

[Deer Hunter]

As I write this my friend called me to tell me he is house sitting for a gentleman in his 60's who shot a 39 year old intruder in his house yesterday. The home owner came home and found him in his house. He is a concealed carry weapon holder and pulled out his 40 SW and shot him one time center chest after the intruder charged him after he ignored his command to freeze. This criminal apparently posed as a vacuum cleaner salesman and if nobody was home would break into the homes.

Im sorry for the 60 yr old gentlemen to have to do this but im glad he understands what center mass is.

[Nukes]

...The difference is that you don't see anyone from the factions of Jewery [sic] or Christianity actually doing these things, while loudly proclaiming God's blessing with their blood-stained hands in the air.....

I infer that you are speaking for yourself, that YOU don't see terrorism and genocide perpetrated by Judeo-Zionism. I see plenty of it and, outside the USA, the world sees plenty of it.

More is reported in the Israeli press than ever sees the light of day here—and then there is the international press. I provided an example of a COMMON terrorist act committed in the name of Master Race belief, sniping Palestinian children for sport (and then their medical rescuers) EXACTLY as regularly exhorted by the influential contemporary rabbis I have already named. I also mentioned the government monument honoring the man who mowed down 39 people at prayer.

Here's a 2004 article in Ha'aretz by Gideon Levy about the callous killing of children by the IDF: Killing children is no longer a big deal The killing of innocent children did not stop in 2004, but continues. Clearly there are decent Jews like Levy and the late humanitarian Israel Shahak, men who speak out against the atrocities, but they are not in power.

These atrocities are NOT isolated instances, but representative of a pervasive problem, the acting out of a Master Race creed by a minority—yes, a minority, but a minority that has power, position, money, weapons (nuclear weapons!), and influence—wicked influence, ginning US up for another war, risking World War 3.

Not including repeated invasions by the IDF, there are many hundreds of other terrorist acts that, in aggregate, have killed dozens of thousands of INNOCENT people. These acts are documented (and, if you want to turn this thread into a documentary, I will oblige with a data dump that will stun any objective rational person). Villages like Deir Yassin are no exception. There are hundreds of Palestinian villages that have been wiped of the map, people murdered and/or dispossessed of their ancestral lands. I have provided a few salient links here, but you are a bright man, so I am sure that you can Google and collate the results without my spoon-feeding the details.

After the deaths are tallied, if you are still in denial, we can also move on to the vandalism (including daily urinations) upon Christian holy sites, desecration of graves, spitting on clerics, the Israeli sex slavery industry, "economic nakba," etc. etc. etc.—all of it very well documented in the international press waiting for those with eyes that see.

Just maybe it isn't such a tiny minority after all.

[TheOTHERmaninblack]

Nukes, perhaps you might connect your anti-Zionist dissertation with the topic of this thread, or start a new thread. I'm having some difficulties in avoiding the "screediness" impression it's giving off. Several of the points you make have been addressed in various places, but bringing that all in here seems... I dunno... off topic?

At this point, I regret asking you to clarify. I had no idea of the floodgate I was opening.