savageshooter
Unregistered
Hello all,
I recently got into AR's. Got 6 now. 5.56, one 308, and last month 2 of the 6.8 SPC's. Bought the 6.8's for a hunting trip 2 weekends ago for ram because I didn't want to carry the heavier 308. Now I see 6.5 Grendel cartridge and am intrigued. Is it really better than the other cartridges that fit in the normal ar lowers for taking deer sized game? Want to build another AR but was thinking 7.62X39 because I have so much of that ammo or another 308 since I bought it when it was cheap 1000 rounds for 99 bucks for 308 ain't bad. Is the 6.5 Grendel worth getting. All I want it for is shooting rams and pigs.
6.5 is better than 6.8 for everything. The 6.8 does not have the legs the 6.5 has so its range is limited.
6.8 only outruns the 6.5 at the muzzle, After that, no contest. Plus, iirc, 115 grain is about the biggest bullet you laod in the 6.8.
To be honest within 300m I think they're about the same, but past 300m you'll see the 6.5 Grendel pull away from the 6.8spc, and the gap only gets bigger (in the Grendel's favor, of course). If you ever want to shoot it beyond 500yd, and especially if you reload I suggest the 6.5 over the 6.8.
I load, and shoot, both calibers. I like my 6.8, however, the 6.5 does everything it can do and more with a heavier bullet. Plus it is not limited to 500 meters and less. Bigger bullets are better........
The Grendel just does everthing better, but the big difference is bullet selection. The 6.8 is very limited compared to the Grendel. For short range deer the 6.8 will do the job but for long range rams the Grendel is the choice.
Bill Alexander
Unregistered
I think that perhaps we need to take higher ground here and rather than propose and foster a 6.5 vs 6.8 argument, should instead simply look to each cartridge and expound the merits per the application without comparison. I feel that a solid discussion of the projectiles types and hunting capability of the cartridge will provide the most benifit to the community, especially those looking at the Grendel for the first time for hunting.
Game type and anatomy might be a part of such discussion as it does effect how projectiles are selected.
There truly aren't a lot of differences, but I would give the edge to Grendel, even for short-range hunting. The Grendel can readily handle longer heavier bullets than the SPC, giving it long range punch for large game. Try looking at the series of notes at http://shootersnotes.com/grendelmania/ for a comparison.
That article is becoming dated because of the rapid improvements in availability of lighter all-copper bullets in both calibers, but it still gives a good discussion about the heavier bullets in Grendel vs 6.8 SPC.
In the lighter bullets, the differences may blur a tad. Let's look at the Barnes Banded Solids an example even those these are not considered suitable big-game bullets: - 6.5 110 gr SD .225 BC .452
- 6.8 120 gr SD .223 BC .438
These bullets have nearly identical sectional densities. The ballistic coefficients are essentially the same -- a difference of 0.015 should be ignored.
I don't have reloading data handy for these bullets, but am reasonably sure that the 120 gr 6.8 will get almost as much velocity as the 110 gr 6.5, given equal chamber volumes. The potential velocity difference comes from the expansion ratios for the two cartridges.
These differences, with Grendel probably having the slight edge will propagate into the lighter bullets.
The comparison is valid only when bullets of approximately equal sectional density are considered.
Bill Alexander Wrote:I think that perhaps we need to take higher ground here and rather than propose and foster a 6.5 vs 6.8 argument, should instead simply look to each cartridge and expound the merits per the application without comparison. I feel that a solid discussion of the projectiles types and hunting capability of the cartridge will provide the most benifit to the community, especially those looking at the Grendel for the first time for hunting.
Game type and anatomy might be a part of such discussion as it does effect how projectiles are selected.
Well, there goes all my 6.8 bashing.  All kidding aside, when I was researching getting a new rifle caliber to deer hunt with, I looked at the .308, 6.8 and 6.5. I settled on the 6.5 because 1) I did not want to lug a .308 around and 2) The 6.5 seemed to offer me more bullet choices. Most rifles come down to personal choice. I have friends with 6.8 and they love them. I just chose to go in a different direction. An AA Tactical upper on a Plum Crazy polymer lower is very light, dependable and serves me well as a deer rifle.
RStewart Wrote:Well, there goes all my 6.8 bashing. All kidding aside, when I was researching getting a new rifle caliber to deer hunt with, I looked at the .308, 6.8 and 6.5. I settled on the 6.5 because 1) I did not want to lug a .308 around and 2) The 6.5 seemed to offer me more bullet choices. Most rifles come down to personal choice. I have friends with 6.8 and they love them. I just chose to go in a different direction. An AA Tactical upper on a Plum Crazy polymer lower is very light, dependable and serves me well as a deer rifle.
Here Here, I couldn't agree more.
For a deer? Doesn't matter, 6.5, 6.8, good choices. Rarely should someone shoot at a deer past 200 meters, so it doesn't matter. What does matter is: shot placement, bullet. I've killed more African game with 6.5 than any other caliber, at first to the surprise of my PH, and later, he wanted one. I've used .260 Ackley improved, and 6.5-.284 in Africa, killing more than 20 species, because you can't take a Grendel in no matter what kind of gun (military caliber). Deer, no problem, shoot them right. I of course love 6.5 anything because of the sectional density advantage, but that isn't the answer to your question.
fanofflyn Wrote:For a deer? Doesn't matter, 6.5, 6.8, good choices. Rarely should someone shoot at a deer past 200 meters, so it doesn't matter. What does matter is: shot placement, bullet. I've killed more African game with 6.5 than any other caliber, at first to the surprise of my PH, and later, he wanted one. I've used .260 Ackley improved, and 6.5-.284 in Africa, killing more than 20 species, because you can't take a Grendel in no matter what kind of gun (military caliber). Deer, no problem, shoot them right. I of course love 6.5 anything because of the sectional density advantage, but that isn't the answer to your question.
Which armed force in what country uses the 6.5 Gendel as their (military caliber). Also will they not allow .308 Win to be used in Africa, or 6.5x55 Swede, or even 30-06 for that matter, they were all at one point or still are military cartridges.
Since when did a grendel become a "military caliber"? Everybody wants it to be a military caliber, but the last time I checked it was not. The original case dates back to the 7.62x39 which evolved into the PPC which evolved into the Grendel. You could also say that .260 Ackley improved which came from the .308 Win. is a "military caliber".
fanofflyn Wrote:For a deer? Doesn't matter, 6.5, 6.8, good choices. Rarely should someone shoot at a deer past 200 meters, so it doesn't matter. What does matter is: shot placement, bullet.
I disagree, I have killed far more deer at greater than 200yds than up close, always with one shot.
I will say that we all need to shoot withing a range we are comfortable shooting at, if we cannot correctly place a shot it does not matter if it is at 50 or 500yds.
+1 Warped. I have shot deer from 60 yards to 500, with 223, 243, and 308 (deer grendel is being built as we speak). And all shots were within the cartridges ability to do the job. Shot placement is paramount.
I love ALL my 6.5s...... my 6.5x55 Swed (got me started), my 6.5x284 (when you really need the reach) and my 6.5 Grendel (does most everything. That said, I wonder how a 6.5 SPC would stack up to a 6.5 Grendel? Had the 6.8 SPC been done as a 6.5 SPC there might have been two bulldogs in that dog pit.
And I don't disagree with the long shooters either, probably different locations and conditions, and experience levels than what I see locally. Not a problem to me. The determination of military caliber is made by the country you're trying to bring it into, and there is no arguing with them at the port of entry. Be sure you're OK to bring it in before you try, or you will lose it right there. It doesn't even have to be a real military caliber, just look like it to the guy that's on that day. Sorry if I offended anyone, just have been there, and done that.
--fanofflyn
gunner69 Wrote:...I wonder how a 6.5 SPC would stack up to a 6.5 Grendel? Had the 6.8 SPC been done as a 6.5 SPC there might have been two bulldogs in that dog pit. A 6.5 SPC would be even more dependent on the lighter bullets than it is as a 6.8 SPC. The trend toward lighter bullets in 6.5 would will help make a 6.5 SPC a bit more viable. The good news from the trend toward lightweight 6.8 bullets (e. g., 85 gr TSX and 95 gr TTSX in .277 dia) is that I can now get some excellent lightweight bullets for my 270!
their is one made its called 6.5 dti hornady makes the dies and shillen makes the barrels
dpw4x4 Wrote:their is one made its called 6.5 dti hornady makes the dies and shillen makes the barrels
I think Dtech makes the uppers and he chambers the Shilen barrels.
http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/new_altcal.htm
I think he gets 3000 fps out of a 18" barrel with a 90 grain Sierra bullet. This is the 6mm version. He makes a .224 and a 6.5 too.
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