The best thing to do is eliminate the contact on the brass deflector instead sticking velcro on it. This can be done by reducing the velocity of your bolt carrier. This is a function of the energy or amount of powder in the load, gas pressure, and mass of the buffer and bc. The solution is to simply use a heavier buffer and/or bc. The rule of thumb in any AR is to use the heaviest buffer that will still allow the gun to cycle reliably. You can also use an adjustable gas block which is usually needed with a suppressed gun b/c of the higher gas back pressure.
What you want is your brass to eject at 3:00 (if your barrel is 12:00) and for the spent brass to fall about 5 ft from your gun. Over gased ARs with carbine buffers and oversized gas ports will cause more problems than just dinged brass.
Do not use a heavier buffer or carrier, this is not something to mess with unless you want to intentionally ruin a rifle or void a warranty.
Carriers should be M16 and Buffers should be either rifle or H3 or H3G.
I have more than a few lifetimes worth of data from several R&D experts that back this up, if COLT, FN and others know it is wrong why would you suggest it?
I am not picking on you but if we allow people to think this is the way to do it eventually someone will either ruin a rifle's bolt, bbl extension, rifle itself or hurt someone.
Yes you can adjust gas pressure but don't tell someone to do something that manufacturers know is dead wrong.
A heavier buffer and heavier bolt carrier (referring to the F/A m16 carrier) will just slow down the speed of the cycling of your bolt. This will save on unnecessary wear and tear on your gun and in this case will save on the brass.
Get the heaviest buffer it will run with. Look up the AR bolt bounce on YouTube for some slow mot. vids.
I keep one of each, H, Spikes t2, H2, H3 and 9mm and experiment with a new gun.
Here's a little info on the weight deltas.
![[Image: dc68d861.jpg]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/Alpha-Romeo3/Hunting%20Tech/dc68d861.jpg)
![[Image: ar15carriers.jpg]](http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w77/BLS972/ar15carriers.jpg)
![[Image: boltCarrier.gif]](http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/ar15-m16parts/boltCarrier.gif)
There are two types of AR-15 BCs, the lower left pic with the rear lower of the carrier completely open, the middle left AR-15 carrier are full circle with a reduced bottom rear section. The pic on the right shows the bottom rear view of the carriers on the left.
AR-15 open bottom rear BCG: 8.6 oz
AR-15 full circle BCG: 9.2 oz
M16 BCG: 9.5 oz
Another option is to use a carrier weight system. Brownells sells it.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=12720...GHT_SYSTEM
Deathstroke
Go with the proven methods suggested by the warriors of the horde. Velcro, adjustable gas block and AA enidine buffer. It's worked beautiful for me and I'm not worried about damaging my Gren.
warped Wrote:this is not something to mess with unless you want to intentionally ruin a rifle or void a warranty. still laughing about this...
I was referring to the carrier weights and that sort of stuff, 9mm buffers are not meant to be used in a gas operated rifle.
Laugh as much as you like, it does not mean it is right to do use heavier than specified carriers or buffers.
M16 carriers should be the only ones used really, it is how the rifle was meant to run.
My grendel also has dented the neck of the casings against the deflector since round one. From the start I was running with a JP gasblock and a Tubb flat spring. No matter how I adjusted the Gas block it will still do it. I made a mandrel to straighten the necks first, but that is just extra work I would rather not do. I will probably stick a velcro dot on the deflector as suggested. One thing I had read some where else involved "tuning" the ejector spring. Basically trimming off one coil at a time to reduce the strength so that it will not bang the casings against he receiver. Does this sound reasonable? Has anyone ever tried this?
I have one of these from TC Accessories on my Grendel and other AR. You can put velcro on it and also bend the back to help deflect the brass down. I did both. My brass is not flattened or dented and the empty casings fall in my range bag.
![[Image: IMG_0265_0117.jpg]](http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/chaser2020/IMG_0265_0117.jpg)
warped Wrote:I was referring to the carrier weights and that sort of stuff, 9mm buffers are not meant to be used in a gas operated rifle.
Laugh as much as you like, it does not mean it is right to do use heavier than specified carriers or buffers.
M16 carriers should be the only ones used really, it is how the rifle was meant to run.
Humm not exactly... I helped a guy fix his problematic SBRed AR 7.5" 5.56 with a 9mm buffer along with a upgraded extractor. Now it runs great They also work great with, well 9mm uppers. It's a bold statement to say don't run heavy anything with out risk of ruining your AR. The worst that will happen is that it will short stroke and not strip and chamber the next round which effectively creates a single shot. Its better to run a heavy buffer system than one that is too light. A light system will give you a higher ROF but risk damaging your bolt and double feeding/jamming. Grendel owners are not concerned with a high ROF anyways. A slightly slower BCG can only make your system more reliable and can actually improve your accuracy if your current rig is slamming the bolt violently.
A good rule of thumb is if you brass is getting slung out at the 4:00 to 6:00 position (barrel being 12:00) your BCG velocity is too fast and should be slowed down a tad. Many Grendel owner put their G6.5 upper on their 5.56 lower without considering the buffer. Something to think about...
One last thing, the military runs H1 and H2 buffers in their M4s along with F/A carriers....
Yeah and they have moved on to heavier one H3 (H3+) for the IAR and other types.
So what was your point?
Because it runs does not make it right, take a look after thousands of rounds, unless your knowledge surpasses Colt and FN
I did not just start this stuff yesterday, I am done with debating you now....
My point is clear. Heavy buffers solve feeding, reliability, and brass ejecting problems which is why the military and Colt (BTW Colt is the military's biggest supplier of black guns) run "H" buffers. FN has never made 5.56 ARs only ARs in 7.62. FN 5.56 family consist on the FN CAL, M16s licensed and speced by Colt, and of course the more recent 5.56 Scar. I have no clue what you're talking about...
H buffers are not the issue, they are the correct buffers for the entire family of weapons, be it M or AR.
Yeah I know what they make, there is a reason for it.
I just don't agree with running anything heavier than H3 or H3G. I know something about this, I did the research and consulted with R&D.
9mm buffers belong in 9mm weapons.
each weapon type has a particular need for a specific weight buffer.
I am done now.
I understand that you may not have read anything I posted in the past or on the old website.
smoke13 Wrote:My point is clear. Heavy buffers solve feeding, reliability, and brass ejecting problems which is why the military and Colt (BTW Colt is the military's biggest supplier of black guns) run "H" buffers. FN has never made 5.56 ARs only ARs in 7.62. FN 5.56 family consist on the FN CAL, M16s licensed and speced by Colt, and of course the more recent 5.56 Scar. I have no clue what you're talking about...
IMHO you're taking a simple question about a flat neck and turning it into a design/modification/buffer discussion. I can Google all kinds of stuff, too, but it don't mean it's right. We were just trying to give the guy an easy, cheap fix. Not overhaul the system.
smoke13 Wrote:My point is clear. Heavy buffers solve feeding, reliability, and brass ejecting problems which is why the military and Colt (BTW Colt is the military's biggest supplier of black guns) run "H" buffers. FN has never made 5.56 ARs only ARs in 7.62. FN 5.56 family consist on the FN CAL, M16s licensed and speced by Colt, and of course the more recent 5.56 Scar. I have no clue what you're talking about...
Errmmm.. Colt M16's are relatively rare from what I've seen. In fact it's been since boot camp since I've seen a few old A2's. The A4's that I've seen have all been FNH. Likewise, FNH makes the 249, 240, and I believe M2's anymore. AFAIK, the only thing Colt makes is the M4 for the military.
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how do the Endine carbine buffers run in a 6.5G ????
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burnsome Wrote:how do the Endine carbine buffers run in a 6.5G ????
Only the carbine version has been properly valved for the Grendel, and only the version sold on AA's website. It's found under "Parts and Accessories" and then under "Lowers and Uppers".
I've been running one for more than 2 years and really like it.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
warped Wrote:H buffers are not the issue, they are the correct buffers for the entire family of weapons, be it M or AR.
Yeah I know what they make, there is a reason for it.
I just don't agree with running anything heavier than H3 or H3G. I know something about this, I did the research and consulted with R&D.
9mm buffers belong in 9mm weapons.
each weapon type has a particular need for a specific weight buffer.
These buffers that are being discussed are all new to me. I'm curious what the difference is between a H3 and a 9mm buffer?
Weight, one is meant for a blowback operated weapon, the other for smoothing out the recoil impulse and delaying opening of the bolt just enough to let pressures drop and the action to slow down the proper amount.
We could say the H3 and the H3G were tuned perfectly for the job that was required of them.
It is all about weight and the movement limits of the weight inside the buffer, the damping effect of the pads and the delay it causes within the operating system.
To look at this you would think there is not much going on, it may be perhaps the most complicated and misunderstood part of the AR-15 and derivatives.
I thought that when I googled both the 9mm and H3 buffers that they both weighed the same, or with-in a ounce or 2. Depends which site you look at. Are the 2 buffers built different from one another on the inside?
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