My First Grendel, barrel recommendations in 18-20" please.

[rasp65]

Bill talks about 18" barrel length in this post. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...#post37955

[stevegun 1]

Thanks rasp65, good link. If I'm reading right, a RLGS is the way to go. After reading the link, I'm still not sure of the correct gas port size for the barrel? It sure sounds like an adjustable GB is the smart way to go with the Grendel.

[LRRPF52]

Bill was saying that Grendel 18" guns with a MLGS work better with factory ammo, but punish those who want to push the pressures higher when hand-loading. He also said they experienced finicky issues with 20" RLGS guns, so the gas port was changed to help with reliability.

Most people with 20" guns I know have great reliability as a result in the Grendel, including the ones I have shot.

[Drifter]

Thanks rasp65, good link. If I'm reading right, a RLGS is the way to go. After reading the link, I'm still not sure of the correct gas port size for the barrel? It sure sounds like an adjustable GB is the smart way to go with the Grendel.

From rasp65's link, I think this is your answer for an 18":

Our examination of the 18" barrel has shown that the mid gas system while a little enthusiastic can be easily mitigated by reducing the gas port size. Typically the port is 0.073" for the correct operation and the slight change in duration of pressure at the port actually helps reliability.

FWIW, I had a MLGS 18" with a gas port that measured ~0.082", and it ran fine with a standard gas block using powders of yesteryear. Other 18" barrels that I've tried had gas ports measuring 0.090"+, and an adjustable gas block was absolutely needed.

Until recently, RLGS on ~20" barrels didn't seem to need adjustable blocks. But with new powders like CFE-223, adjustable gas blocks make sense. 129gr bullets using CFE-223 powder will operate a system much differently than 107's with 8208 powder.

[stevegun 1]

Thanks again guys, I think an adjustable GB makes the most sense. IMHO, I'm thinking the Syrac is the best design I've seen so far. I'd still like to go with the 18" and a MLGS, but I keep going back and forth. As always, the responses/support I've been getting are outstanding. I started another thread to get some opinions on the LBC four rail hand guards and have only one response that didn't really apply. Did I make a mistake asking about LBC products here?

[ricsmall]

no, no mistake. All questions are welcome here. It may be more of a lack of familiarity with the product. Youll likely get more responses.

[kamrr4437]

I could be wrong. But isnt there numerous post on here of people that have the LBC that have problems shooting certain kinds of grendel ammo like the hornady 123s? I havent searched back through but it seems like i saw alot of post on that. Ive never seen evidence of the LBC being more accurate over the Grendel either. ive seen a bunch of groups on this site that were half inch or under from alot of grendel guns. Im in no way saying that the LBC isnt accurate either or that there isnt some people on here with some nice shooting LBC rifles.

[6.8 KLR]

I could be wrong. But isnt there numerous post on here of people that have the LBC that have problems shooting certain kinds of grendel ammo like the hornady 123s? I havent searched back through but it seems like i saw alot of post on that. Ive never seen evidence of the LBC being more accurate over the Grendel either. ive seen a bunch of groups on this site that were half inch or under from alot of grendel guns. Im in no way saying that the LBC isnt accurate either or that there isnt some people on here with some nice shooting LBC rifles.

You are right about the Hornady Grendel rounds. They will not chamber in a .264 LBC because there is a one half of a degree difference in the throat angle of the LBC. The reason seems to be that the difference of that throat angle works the brass less when resized.....I think that made sense....therefore making the brass last longer ( in theory) because it gets worked less when going through the reloading process.......I have solved the problem by getting Hornady custom dies from Les Baur.com expressly for the .264 LBC. They cost $58.00 plus S&H....

[Drifter]

Hornady factory Grendel ammo works fine in my current LBC chamber, and in previous LBC chambers that I have owned / built.

If the rounds won't chamber, it's probably a bolt headspace issue. I think LBC is supposed to use the Grendel-type bolts with an additional 0.011" of recess. A "standard" bolt without the extra recess might prevent the bolt from fully closing. I think BHW has done LBC chambers both ways (Type 1 and Type 2 bolts), and mis-mathcing the bolts could cause excessive or inadequate headspace.

[6.8 KLR]

Hornady factory Grendel ammo works fine in my current LBC chamber, and in previous LBC chambers that I have owned / built.

If the rounds won't chamber, it's probably a bolt headspace issue. I think LBC is supposed to use the Grendel-type bolts with an additional 0.011" of recess. A "standard" bolt without the extra recess might prevent the bolt from fully closing. I think BHW has done LBC chambers both ways (Type 1 and Type 2 bolts), and mis-mathcing the bolts could cause excessive or inadequate headspace.

Then why does reloading, resizing, with the LBC dies solve the chambering problem if I have a bolt issue? I have the correct bolt that was fitted with my barrel when I bought it..............Its the difference in the throat not the bolt......

[ricsmall]

6.8, is the hornady ammo youre using current mfr? some of the early grendel ammo was troublesome, just wondering, as the ammo for both is the same spec, its only the throats that are different in the chambers, as you stated. Has anyone seen a drawing for the LBC? I know its not saami, so different builders could cut slightly different, although it doesnt make sense that LBC dies correct the problem unless there is some other difference in the chambers. Were there any markings on the bullet from engaging the lands? The problem you are describing sounds flip-flop, as the compound angle of the grendel throat would engage projo before the LBC chamber would. just curious as to what would be causing this.

Edit: The reason I ask about the early ammo is because the neck on it was reportedly too large in dia. to fit the .295? neck in an LBC chamber. Hornady changed this with the current ammo to fit both chambers.


Richard

[Drifter]

Then why does reloading, resizing, with the LBC dies solve the chambering problem if I have a bolt issue? I have the correct bolt that was fitted with my barrel when I bought it..............Its the difference in the throat not the bolt......

LBC dies are reportedly the same dimensions as Grendel dies. (And Hornady LBC brass is Hornady Grendel brass with a different headstamp.) Reloading fixes the problem by setting the shoulder back enough to address the issue of inadequate headspace with factory ammo, thus allowing the bolt to fully close.

Put a factory round and reloaded cartridge side-by-side on a flat surface, and you might be able to recognize the difference in shoulder setback with the naked eye.

Have you tried LBC factory ammo, and if so, was the result different versus Grendel factory ammo?

Obviously, I could be mistaken, as I'm simply offering my best guess based on info presented. Either your chamber was cut short, you have a bad batch of factory ammo, or you have a bolt headspace issue.

What brand is your barrel, and who matched the bolt?

If you have doubts about the chambers and ammo interchangeability, call Les Baer himself and ask. (Yes, they will let you speak directly to him if you call.)

[rick458]

Who makes an adjustable gas block that is .875"

[offensive]

Who makes an adjustable gas block that is .875"

http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=186677

[offensive]

Hope I am not derailing this thread as I am going to ask more questions concerning my build.

Well I am now in a pickle trying to figure out what set up to go with as well. I will be using factory ammo for a while until I get confident in my reloading skills. So far my thoughts are a 20" barrel and I am undecided about from where, twist rate, and gas system. I will be using this for target shooting(med-long range) occasionally taking out coyotes on my in-laws land.


So I am going to continue reading several threads on barrels here. However I am leaning towards BHW for a barrel and then I just have to figure out a bolt.

[LRRPF52]

I know that all factory loads I have tried feed, fire, extract, and eject from my AA Grendel. That includes ammo from every 6.5 Grendel ammunition manufacturer, except Black Hills:

Wolf 123gr SP (a terrible bullet that fouls barrels quickly and the load is not known for accuracy)
Precision Firearms 123gr Lapua Silver Scenar
Hornady 123gr A-MAX
Alexander Arms 90gr TNT

Everything else has been hand-loads. The Precision Firearms load, Hornady A-MAX factory load, and AA 90gr TNT have all been accurate.

The thing with .264 chambers is there is no SAAMI standard, so we don't really know how many different people have made their own reamers, and the compatibility of those chambers with factory ammo. Many of them work great, and shoot tiny bugholes to boot, while others don't chamber or extract reliably, and those often can't be identified as to who made them.

The good thing is that there are at least 5 manufacturers who use a SAAMI Grendel reamer so you at least get a known quantity, and there are some LBC chambers that I personally would have no issue with, like Les Baer's.