What about that Christopher Dorner fellow?

[bwaites]

Bwaites, the problem with your example is that you or I probably would not have shot 4 cops and published a manifesto... that makes it a bit different in my mind.

Did he shoot 4 cops? Or is that what the Mainstream Media has reported and you are willing to go along with that as convicting evidence? If you are willing to accept that at face value, are you also willing to accept their version of the need for gun control?

Did he publish the manifesto? Are you 100% sure, or was that a construct after the fact of the first deaths?

You can't have it both ways, believing what you want about one thing, while believing differently about something else.

That's why we are a nation conceived in the rule of law, and when those charged with enforcing the law step over the boundary, we are left without hope that WE can believe that they won't turn on us.

I personally believe he wrote the manifesto, and I believe he killed everyone he is accused of killing. BUT...my beliefs are NOT facts. None of those things are proven, and until proven, he has the right of the benefit of the doubt, except now he is dead, and he gets no benefit of rights.

[Grendel-Gene]

point taken.

[Grendel-Gene]

I do still think that he had no interest in due process... not in his original grievances with the LAPD, nor with being taken alive after his murder spree. it seems to me that you have to be alive and in custody to go before a jury... he took his life thus shortcircuiting that process ( again, if what has been reported us in fact true).

[bwaites]

I do still think that he had no interest in due process... not in his original grievances with the LAPD, nor with being taken alive after his murder spree. it seems to me that you have to be alive and in custody to go before a jury... he took his life thus shortcircuiting that process ( again, if what has been reported us in fact true).

And I'll agree with that assessment. .

The problem I have with the recordings I've heard is that it wouldn't have mattered, he wasn't leaving alive, period.

One of my friends in California emailed me when they shot up the newspaper ladies rig and told me the same thing. He said, "They've decided, this guy isn't going to trial, period." It appears that was the case, regardless of his attitude.

[JASmith]

What Dorner did or not do is irrelevant to the final act.

The media indicated that the police used a "very strong tear gas grenade, known as a 'burner' grenade." I am very sure that these things produce a lot more heat than smoke or normal grenades. For example, I have direct knowledge that the 'safe' white "HC" (not phosphorus) grenade will start fires meaning that fire had to be a distinct possibility if not the intended outcome.

In sum, they acted at least carelessly because time was on the side because the perp was surrounded. They had no need to push the issue into more violent confrontations.

I would not be worried except that the LAPD has a long history of excessive use of force. Remember the armored bank robbers about ten years back. These guys drove an armored personnel carrier through someone's garage because they "thought" the bad guys might be holed up there. The vehicle was used to serve "no knock" search warrants by driving into a living room.

The scary thing is that there are other police departments who have also fallen victim to the notion that anyone not a sworn police officer is an enemy.

This and less egregious but still excessive behavior casts law enforcement in the light of an occupying force rather than the members of the citizenry they should be.

Small wonder gangs make such huge inroads into our cities small and large.

[Nukes]

Nukes, can you honestly say that Django Dorner didnt get what be deserved even if he didnt get "due process"??? I agree that the process was not perfect, but the man was clearly guilty and in fact could have walked out with his hands up and surrendered at anytime.... SO HE CHOSE THAT OUTCOME... (or something similar in which he was shot in a fire fight without the burning down of the cabin).

Again, i am sure the LAPD was not trained by Mother Theresa... but Dorner had an active role in how he met his demise. Again, the tears just wont come.

My dad always said, " Son, life is hard; but its so much harder when you are stupid....". Maybe Django never had a dad.

I can say that vigilante justice is not the proper role of the police or the Kenyan's drone star-chamber. The end does not justify the means.

For anyone who didn't get the picture during the LA Riots when the heavily-armed cowards "who risk their lives every day" ran and barricaded themselves in their ratholes, maybe they got the picture when the yellow-bellied bullies shot two Asian women, missed a skinny white guy, and "burn[ed] that m$%^*& f$%^&@ down."

MS13 or LAPD? Pick your favorite SoCal gang.

Some of our dads explained to us that the afterlife is "so much harder" when you do evil.

[bwaites]

Some of our dads explained to us that the afterlife is "so much harder" when you do evil.

Quote of the Day!

[JASmith]

...One of my friends in California emailed me when they shot up the newspaper ladies rig and told me the same thing. He said, "They've decided, this guy isn't going to trial, period." It appears that was the case, regardless of his attitude.

...and by doing that silenced him. Whether Dorner's allegations had merit, killing him without trial allows for more speculation about 'what are the police hiding?"

Far better to have found a way to get him to trial, air his grievances on the witness stand, and be shown to be a fool or hero depending on the outcome.

It almost sounds like a repeat of "If the glove doesn't fit, you can't convict." Another case where someone likely guilty of the crime escaped conviction because of an incompetent investigation including probable planting of evidence.

Anyone see a pattern developing?

Our police are supposed to be the good guys. The vast majority are but at least a few don't act that way. The rest of the force gets tarnished. A few more act out and reinforce, and so on until the 'us versus them' mentality rules.

[shotgun_wedding]

Bwaites, given what happened to the other 2 trucks that were fired upon, I would say the probability is overwhelming that you'd get shot in that situation.

It is amazing that the media spends so much time wringing their hands over what might happen if a citizen accidentally shot the wrong person, yet has given law enforcement either light treatment or a complete pass.

[bwaites]

Bwaites, given what happened to the other 2 trucks that were fired upon, I would say the probability is overwhelming that you'd get shot in that situation.

It is amazing that the media spends so much time wringing their hands over what might happen if a citizen accidentally shot the wrong person, yet has given law enforcement either light treatment or a complete pass.

Roger that, which is why we can't let LEO's get away with this kind of action, especially!

We all feel that he had it coming, but he had it coming in the proper way, using the proper steps in the legal system. Believing that he had it coming and he got what he deserved will lead us down the path to a police state!

[sneaky one]

We can't become vigilantes-ever. Police state is what we all avoid. We can only hope to -get all of the facts from this shoot ,burn out, & the lack of facts from the conn. shooting- all from our fave government=.-phtewy. Time for some Real changes in America.
The 2 farty system does not work-at all.

It's time to have a real choice- lets find a way.

[LRRPF52]

The case I'm reminded of was a recent one where an FBI agent went missing in California. His body was later found with a gun at the scene. He had no record of disciplinary action, and was a devoted agent according to the Bureau.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/31/mis...alifornia/

A worst-case scenario could be that Dorner had some other case, and the published one was a cover. Since we've been smothered with an activist propaganda apparatus, and no real journalism since before I was even born, I always have to contact sources close to the story I'm studying to find out the ground truth, as the lamestream just conditions you with snippets, training your attention-deficit mental span into shorter and shorter spurts of BS.

From sources who claim to have been close to Dorner in the military, they indicated that he was a dirtbag who failed everything he tried, then blamed the system and claimed bias towards him. The "manifesto" corroborates that, and the talking heads have given him way too much credit for martial skill and "advanced training", with no indication that he had any such thing.