Obama wants only military leaders who will agree to fire on US citizens?

[sneaky one]

There is no way we as the people, and a many in the armed forces-, and LE -would ever fire upon us, that's paranoia talking out loud.
Bwaites, I can't beleive you think it's real. Never trust the media-the lies, half truths are spread there-easily. Pretty sad sack state of the Nation lately. This is just too much, as over the top paranoia runs rampant. I am in the proccess of moving to a quiet place in S. America. I gave up on N. America last month...plewjhhhhhh!

[bwaites]

There is no way we as the people, and a many in the armed forces-, and LE -would ever fire upon us, that's paranoia talking out loud.
Bwaites, I can't beleive you think it's real. Never trust the media-the lies, half truths are spread there-easily. Pretty sad sack state of the Nation lately. This is just too much, as over the top paranoia runs rampant. I am in the proccess of moving to a quiet place in S. America. I gave up on N. America last month...plewjhhhhhh!

Not sure if I believe it or not....but its a source not known for hyperbole.

AND....it has happened before! No one thought that McArthur would fire on veterans during the bonus marches either!

[leopard6.5]

Sneaky, does the name Kent State ring a bell?

No one thought it would happen there either.

Lee

[BjornF16]

It was the police who shot the two veterans in the Bonus March, after they were attacked by the veterans. I'm not aware that MacArthur (or Patton, for that matter) fired upon the veterans. I could be mistaken.

Y'all comment as if the Kent State protestors were peacefully exercising their 1A rights. That doesn't jive with the facts. They had already participated in arson and assault, and were threatening more. While the shooting of the students was reprehensible, the protesting students weren't exactly assembling peaceably over the course of the "protests" (most people would call them riots).

Again, the shooting of the students by the Ohio National Guard was reprehensible.

But I would say it is a far cry to compare Kent State to a potential confiscation of arms held by law abiding citizens peaceably exercising the 2A rights.

However, I would expect that if citizens rioted today and attacked LEO/Military, there may be some shots fired. If you put them on the defensive and attack them, they will respond. Simple human nature.

What I don't believe is any military or LEO would do is to go house to house to forcibly take our arms in a gun confiscation...

Just saying...

[bwaites]

It was the police who shot the two veterans in the Bonus March, after they were attacked by the veterans. I'm not aware that MacArthur (or Patton, for that matter) fired upon the veterans. I could be mistaken.

Y'all comment as if the Kent State protestors were peacefully exercising their 1A rights. That doesn't jive with the facts. They had already participated in arson and assault, and were threatening more. While the shooting of the students was reprehensible, the protesting students weren't exactly assembling peaceably over the course of the "protests" (most people would call them riots).

Again, the shooting of the students by the Ohio National Guard was reprehensible.

But I would say it is a far cry to compare Kent State to a potential confiscation of arms held by law abiding citizens peaceably exercising the 2A rights.

However, I would expect that if citizens rioted today and attacked LEO/Military, there may be some shots fired. If you put them on the defensive and attack them, they will respond. Simple human nature.

What I don't believe is any military or LEO would do is to go house to house to forcibly take our arms in a gun confiscation...

Just saying...

While it was two policemen who killed two bonus marchers, it was McArthur who led a cavalry charge with fixed bayonets and gas against the marchers and their families. If fixed bayonets isn't serious, why fix bayonets in the first place? And a cavalry charge against unarmed families?

Have you forgotten Katrina?

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Katrina-G...told-Story

I don't think the VAST MAJORITY of LEO's or Military guys would participate, but a number certainly will, they've demonstrated it in the past, they'll do it again.

[Variable]

What I don't believe is any military or LEO would do is to go house to house to forcibly take our arms in a gun confiscation...

Katrina

[video=youtube;-taU9d26wT4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

For the embed impaired (like me). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26w...ata_player

ETA: I'm too slow. Bill beat me.

[LR1955]

@bjornf16 Look up the definition of petrodollars. Oil is sold in dollars on the global market. It is the global reserve currency. It is the only thing that gives the fiat Federal Reserve Note value. It is enforced at gunpoint. Get it? When countries decide they want to sell oil for gold, Euro's, whatever, the US gunverment bombs them back to the stone age. Jumpin jeezus on a pogo stick. It is plain as day. You fight for the central bankers.

CT:

Do you understand a thing about Situational Awareness? A very liberal estimate would be that about 1/3 of the people on this forum are or were in the military. Many of us for a full career and in the Combat Arms -- not CS or CSS. And I would say that all of us were in leadership positions at one time or the other.

You very specifically attempted to deceive by saying "the US Government bombs them back into the stone age".

Lets get this straight. BjornF-16, myself, and tens of others on this forum are or were the ones who 'bombed back into the stone age', 'closed with and destroyed', conducted DA and UW, etc., not a non-person termed the 'U.S. Government'.

So, here is the question for you.

Do you think guys like Bjorn, me, Howitzer, LRRP52, etc are useful idiots who blindly obey the orders coming from 'Central Bankers'?

The answer is either yes or no. Do not even think of saying anything other than 'Yes' or 'No'. No links to your fellow travelers on late night radio. No Brandenbergers, Central Bankers, Skull and Bones.

Just say 'yes' or 'no' and then leave it alone after that.

LR55

[Nukes]

The "private central banks" have, of course, taken pains for centuries to conceal their concentrated power with interlocking Boards and Directorates. but this reality is being penetrated. "Using a database which listed 37 million companies and investors worldwide, the researchers studied all 43,060 trans-national corporations (TNCs), including the share ownerships linking them..." to map their worldwide power.
http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2012/10/2...e-capital/

These 40,000+ are not the "1%"; they are the 0.005%.

Highly likely that these are the most concentrated cabal of misery and crimes against humanity.

[Michael]

CT:

Do you understand a thing about Situational Awareness? A very liberal estimate would be that about 1/3 of the people on this forum are or were in the military. Many of us for a full career and in the Combat Arms -- not CS or CSS. And I would say that all of us were in leadership positions at one time or the other.

You very specifically attempted to deceive by saying "the US Government bombs them back into the stone age".

Lets get this straight. BjornF-16, myself, and tens of others on this forum are or were the ones who 'bombed back into the stone age', 'closed with and destroyed', conducted DA and UW, etc., not a non-person termed the 'U.S. Government'.

So, here is the question for you.

Do you think guys like Bjorn, me, Howitzer, LRRP52, etc are useful idiots who blindly obey the orders coming from 'Central Bankers'?

The answer is either yes or no. Do not even think of saying anything other than 'Yes' or 'No'. No links to your fellow travelers on late night radio. No Brandenbergers, Central Bankers, Skull and Bones.

Just say 'yes' or 'no' and then leave it alone after that.

LR55

Thanks LR - said it better than I could have.

[LR1955]

The "private central banks" have, of course, taken pains for centuries to conceal their concentrated power with interlocking Boards and Directorates. but this reality is being penetrated. "Using a database which listed 37 million companies and investors worldwide, the researchers studied all 43,060 trans-national corporations (TNCs), including the share ownerships linking them..." to map their worldwide power.
http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2012/10/2...e-capital/

These 40,000+ are not the "1%"; they are the 0.005%.

Highly likely that these are the most concentrated cabal of misery and crimes against humanity.

Nukes:

Your buddy Andrew Gavin Marshall is a big time leftist anarchist whose claim to fame is a anarchistic type of blog. Sorry but as a credible source, he isn't.

And, he should either grow a beard or shave.

LR1955

[Tech09]

amen brother hero my a**
no idenity mean bulls**t it is all lies

[Nukes]

Nukes:

Your buddy Andrew Gavin Marshall is a big time leftist anarchist whose claim to fame is a anarchistic type of blog. Sorry but as a credible source, he isn't.

And, he should either grow a beard or shave.

LR1955

"My buddy"? For the life of me, I fail to see what his facial hair has to do with his data. Argumentum ad hominem is among the most common of logic errors. Gun banners routinely use the ad hominem fallacy against us.

I do not cite Marshall because I agree with his philosophy (I don't) any more than I would cite the rabbis because I agree with theirs (I don't). Usually I cite sources for the data they provide. Feel free to attack his data with data of your own. Since this is the only such large scale study I have seen regarding interlocking boards and directorates, I am aware of no refuting data.

[hm2 clark]

Does our government want military leaders who are prepared to kill American civilians? Let me think....Regime protection forces {FBE DEA ATF) with the assistance of American field forces (somedbody had to show show them how to use M1 tanks) went into Waco under orders. They did what was necessary to win. My point is that (as I learned in the 7th grade) governments have 3 kinds of armed forces (1) Field armies for heavy combat (2) Regime protection forces to enforce it's will on the civilian population and (3)Ceremonal forces to look good.,,,,Me I'm not to worried about our men in uniform, just the ones out.

[Nukes]

Belatedly it was revealed that SpecOps were IN the tanks at Waco. Equally belatedly the helicopter FLIR footage was released, clearly showing men dismounting from a tank, proceeding to the base of the Davidians' home, and you can see the fire erupt from that exact location while the two men are there. Subsequent footage shows full auto muzzle flashes directed at those fleeing their burning home.

Any doubts about what THEY will do to you? Waco: A New Revelation and Waco: The Rules of Engagement will set you straight.

If you want the short version, cut directly to the raw FLIR footage. No wonder they kept the FLIR footage from the Congressional whitewash.... er, um ... hearing.

Too, no matter what the official conspiracy theory, they always dispose of the key evidence as quickly as possible.

Every last guilty party must spend time in the docket at Nuremberg 2.

[Deer Hunter]

The truth is we're all right. We've got many ex-military &Law Enforcement guys right here with us and they are telling the truth that they would not fire on Americans, period and I believe them. But there are many Alphabet agencies and other military personel that could and would shoot us down with what they consider legitimate orders. I do believe that the SHTF soon and I hope I am wrong but things are so screwed up economically, morally, politically and quite frankly personally. Theyre in OUR business to much for my tolerance level that I can no longer overlook it as normal. Somethings wrong and we better realize it soon, as a matter of fact if we dont already know it, its to late.

[PeteDavis]

XE

[LRRPF52]

Here's how it goes down:

The Most Useful Idiot
The Manchurian President, agitated from childhood to hate America, feels empowered and justified to dress America down, by reducing our military, economic, and political capacity to function as a Nation.

Thinking he's executing international "social justice" for all the little people America has "stepped on", he is the most useful idiot in all of Lenin's dreams, in that he has opened the doors for our Asian Communist competitors to dominate regions where we have maintained a balance since the British Empire lost its hegemony.

Most Instrumental Battles are those Not Fought
The Chinese, being adept students of Sun Tzu, know that the most successful military campaign is the one never fought, where your enemy has spent his capacity to do battle, is demoralized...broken. One of the best ways to accomplish this is to use your enemy's own resources against him, by tying him up with surrogates who have been financed by your enemy, rather than yourself. (Al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood...)

So you instigate major campaigns that pull your enemy off into dead-end regions that have not only negative impact on him on the long run, but benefit you at the same time. Let's pretend for a minute that you wanted to really screw your enemy over, without spending a dime confronting him. You get him to knee-jerk with all his might into a briar patch, even a briar patch he just used against a mutual enemy...his own trap, just to demonstrate how easy it is to lead him around like a puppet. With his preoccupation in a dead end, you take that time to re-assert yourself in your areas of primary focus, since he is unable to deal with you.

Afghanistan, the Soviets 1979-1989, terrorist surrogates...distractions from the gorilla

The Real Underbelly
Then you pull the plug on his economy in its most vulnerable spot-say cash, for example. Let's pretend for a moment that your enemy is heavily addicted to illicit narcotics, and upwards of a trillion dollars in cash is laundered, then repatriated back into his country every year. A perfect opportunity to not only rob him of his critical assets, but collapse his economy, while creating a destabilized region in his periphery. Once the money goes missing, you create a war between factions who typically launder the money from the drug proceeds (Sinaloa, Gulf Cartels, Los Zetas), with them thinking that the other faction robbed them...this is straight out of Sun Tzu.

Once the enemy's economy heads south, you offer to help, knowing he is in a position of weakness at the bargaining table, depriving him of more resources while feigning friendship. At this time, you place a puppet leader in charge of your enemy's nation, with massive illegal financing, propping up this new leader as someone new, who will bring great changes. This feat is the ultimate achievement, sans complete victory, of course...making the warrior-artist savor the journey of his enemy's defeat more than the defeat itself. At this point, he's having too much fun destroying you without you realizing what's going on.

At this point, the demands of your own leaders push you to get things going, so you release a biological poison in your enemy's midst, unleash his peripheral enemies who are hardened from years of slaying each other, then cut off his logistics that are under your control. As your enemy implodes into civil war, you take advantage of the vacuum in your region, and overpower the little dogs who were protected by your enemy (Japan, Philippines, South Korea, Taiwan).

End Game
After a period of time, the civil war and regional invasion from your enemy's neighbor have reduced your enemy's capability to exist as a Nation. His coastal areas are ripe for the taking, and much of his population has been wiped out...upwards of 25-33%...dead in the streets from disease or murder, along with his regional neighbor's population, which you have already been culling (there have been over 60,000 cartel murders in Mexico since 2007, when the $700 billion in drug money went missing from the laundering cycle from 2006-2007). Comrade Hussein has spiked Foreign Military Sales to Mexico like no other President in US history, leading to more murders, since the Mexican military and police are the cartels, like any good 3rd world country's forces are.

Flashback to the Present
Meanwhile, Comrade Hussein institutes sweeping policies to further dress down the US Military so that marginalized groups become the new leadership, forcing the true warriors and patriots out of the service or worse. He then demands the services to begin eliminating our nuclear weapons, in a world where proliferation of nuclear weapons is unprecedented.

Signs
The day you see China announce that no new shipments will leave from their harbors to the US, you know it's game time. They are currently stockpiling as many resources as possible to sustain a certain portion of their population so that when the real global collapse is initiated, those people will emerge from the ashes ready to execute the occupation of the most choice Nation on earth, which has been reduced to a smoldering heap of ruin by that time. Millions of workers will be en route to rebuild and provide enough real estate for their civilization to continue onwards.

Demand
That's the main basic plan...driven by demand. They simply don't have enough control of enough resources to feed, house, and provide power to 1.347 billion people, and we just happen to be sitting on the only piece of terrain on this earth that can sustain them. They can't kill off hundreds of millions of people in a war with India, because the Himalayas are in the way, and India could wreak havoc on them with nukes in an overt war. India is also over-populated to the tune of 1.21 billion people, most living in abject poverty.

China is already having enough of a challenge keeping the demonic shackles of Marxism on its people, and needs to relieve the pressure badly. They can't ship off enough people to the Sudan to reduce the population on the Mainland, or anywhere else. Something's go to give...

They, more than anyone else in your imagination, are more motivated to ensure that the left-over remnant of the American people are without arms.

[BjornF16]

While it was two policemen who killed two bonus marchers, it was McArthur who led a cavalry charge with fixed bayonets and gas against the marchers and their families. If fixed bayonets isn't serious, why fix bayonets in the first place? And a cavalry charge against unarmed families?

Have you forgotten Katrina?

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Katrina-G...told-Story

I don't think the VAST MAJORITY of LEO's or Military guys would participate, but a number certainly will, they've demonstrated it in the past, they'll do it again.

I hear you.

Ruby Ridge and Waco burn me up. I blame ATF and the Clinton regime for those fiasco's (and I certainly don't lump ATF into LEO...yes, I know they are technically, but i don't equate them with traditional LEO).

I can't explain Katrina...I'm surprised US Marshals participated, and the National Guard as well. NO police are notoriously corrupt, so i guess I'm not surprised.

As far as Bonus March, yes, a bayonet charge is serious business...and they used the equivalent of tear gas to break up the crowd.

But my main point was that I don't believe the military and local (added) LEO will go house to house to confiscate guns at the order of "our dear leader" for no other reason than to confiscate guns illegally . I know Katrina is evidence to the contrary, but it was still "a natural disaster" area and not a simple command to confiscate. i don't think FLEO have the assets to do "door to door" on a national scale (and yes, I think if anyone would want to, it would be ATF, DHS, etc).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify what they did (there is no justification), just trying to differentiate between situations.

By the way, in case anyone is under any illusions, it is ONLY the ARMY and AIR FORCE that are prohibited from direct action against civilians (Posse Comitatus) absent a declaration of martial law (or other exceptions under the Constitution that allow the CinC to authorize military actions). The Navy (and thus SEALS, USMC SOG) are not under any restriction by law to participate in LEO actions.

See http://publicintelligence.net/u-s-army-m...ng-course/

Otherwise, any branch is authorized to make assets available to LEO, to give advice to LEO, and to pass info to LEO.

[BjornF16]

Just google Gen McChrystals comments on the AR and it'll come up if the link doesnt come up right.

DH...one thing you need to understand about General Officers (GO's)...they are ALL politicians. No one gets to be a GO without being an astute politician. Even reaching O-6 (full bird colonel) takes a basic level of political savvy.

There are a few GO's who are both politician and what I would call a "warrior". Gen Patton was a warrior. Gen Schwarzkopf was a warrior. Colin Powell was not. (yeah sure, some of them are decorated in combat, but that doesn't make them a "warrior" in my book).

My guess is that McChrystal will eventually enter the public political arena...as a democrat! Just a hunch.

[LRRPF52]

Why do we continue to buy from the B@stards when we have all the oil we need here? Yes ive heard them say "Its the environment, our beaches etc.......whats the real reason (or at least whats your opinion from somebody whos in the know?) Theres got to be more to it then that?

The truth is that the US is not reliant on Middle Eastern oil, since we get most of our oil from ourselves, Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela...here in our region. The real issue is, if we don't maintain a stabilizing presence in all the global trade routes, the regions will collapse into chaos at the dictates of opportunistic warlords & regimes who really seek to oppress their neighbors. If that happens, then the supply goes down on an already insanely demand-driven market, which means the price goes up for us unacceptably, oil being a global commodity that will allow the Canadians, Mexicans, and Venezuelans to match the price that the market will bear in such an unstable market.

Part of the problem with understanding the global marketplace for us in the US stems from:

* Geographic isolation from the world...leading to...
* Geographic ignorance of the world and its trade routes
* communists controlling the framework of the oil debate (Oil is evil, you should stop interfering with it, so we can profit more from it.)

I would suggest seriously re-looking at the world's geography in terms of trade routes, major choke points, regional powers near those choke points, the balance of power in those regions, key oil-producing nations and their markets, oil fields and their pipelines, populations and population centers, etc.

For example, here are the top 10 nations for population:

China 1.347 billion
India 1.21 billion
United States 315 million
Indonesia 237 million
Brazil 193 million
Pakistan 182 million
Nigeria 166 million
Bangladesh 152 million (the diarrhea swamp on the Ganges River Delta)
Russia 143 million
Japan 127 million

What is it about these nations that makes them successful breeding grounds for people? Water, and America has more connected rivers and deep sea ports than all of the other top-10 nations combined. China is next for deep sea ports, which is why they are able to export so much product onto the marketplace, manufactured with US technology, using plentiful slave labor. Russia only has 4 major deep sea ports, and 3 of them are totally constrained by geography. One of those 3 is rented from the Ukraine, which then has to go through Turkey, before its ships can access the Mediterranean.

China has major territorial disputes with Russia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, and the Philippines. Look at the geography to see why. Brazil has major population centers with access to the sea on the coast, but they aren't connected to each other...too many mountains and jungle in the way.

We've grown up in the US not understanding the uniqueness of our geography, since that isn't taught in the public fool system. If I administered a test to a 10,000 group sample of high school teachers who teach history, civics, & geography, a statistically insignificant number of them would know anything about what I'm talking about. This type of geography isn't taught in school.