Here we go: Feinstein's proposed 2013 Gun Legislation

[Grendel-Gene]

Kentucky B, Its really not very complicated, honest; The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you infringe, you are "the bad guy" and we will probably need to shoot you with said arms to preserve our liberty. Period. Don't want to get shot? Don't infringe!!!!; Respect LIBERTY.

[BjornF16]

Our legislators take the same basic oath of office as military..."to protect and defend the Constitution".

Like it or not, the Second Amendment is part of our Constitution. The U.S. Supreme Court affirmed that the people are the "militia", and that we are entitled to the same basic firearms capabilities as the military in the 1939 case: U.S. v Miller.

If they don't like the 2nd Amendment, there is a process for amending the Constitution. It is onerous for a reason. The anti-gunners should follow the Constitutional process to affect what they desire, or shut up.

Attempts to undermine the 2nd Amendment via fiat or legislative process are attacks against the Constitution (ever wonder what was meant by "all enemies, foreign and domestic"?).

They want to divide and conquer...set hunters against the "black rifle" crowd ("who needs an assault rifle"?).

Stick together, write your congressmen (more than just occasionally), support at least one of the three "big" 2nd Amendment organizations (hell, support ALL three if you can). Hopefully that will be all it takes...

[adayton]

Good article!

@adayton: I've never heard of NAGR (National Association for Gun Rights)...anyone else?

@BjornF16: I must have opted for an email update or something back several months ago and I have not been forgotten...:-) ... I was only wondering what other people have experienced with them (if anything... and it sounds like no one has at least the one reading this thread...).
They have a website:
http://www.nagr.org ...
which relays to:
http://www.nationalgunrights.org
Just in case anyone wants to check them out...
I understand they have been at some of the gun shows, etc... but I have not seen them there...
Anyway, if anyone has any other info... I would like to hear about it
And if this should have been in a new thread, I apologize...
Thanx,
Allan

[KentuckyBuddha]

The straw man argument does not do much good bub. Because someone is lobbying for reason and civility does not mean they have a particular view on the facts of the second amendment, the constitution in general, pandering to those who would infringe on basic human rights, or anything else.

The fact is to get any kind of meaningful weapons ban of any kind they would need 20 votes from Republicans in the House AND every single Democrat. The Senate is hopeless, you need a 60 vote super-majority to get a bowl of Senate bean soup in the cafeteria...which the supporters of a ban don't remotely have. Even if the opponents of the second amendment got a measure of some kind through one chamber or another...it would die in the Conference Committee and would not even live to go to the other chamber to begin with.

Both the pro-gun and anti-gun forces make a ton of money from all the unrealistic tinfoil hat nonsense after tragedies like Newton. That is the way modern politics works. Both political extremes try to scare the living hell out of folks, and in the case of some of you guys around here Drudge, or Beck, or Limbaugh or whoever... have done a dandy job of doing it. Whether cynically or because they too are not all that overburdened with the capacity to pick through the nonsense they are selling very simple things for you to be angry at. This does not lead to good decisions.

Our Congress by its very design is made to be very inefficient and move slowly. This helps us from making rash decisions in the heat of the moment. It was a very good design, but it depends on a well-informed public. The news being narrative based, and people picking the news that reflects their opinion has a high cost. When a few tea party folk dug in their heels...we lost our credit rating on the world market. That is expensive, but survivable. There is upcoming business that is important to resolve and if both sides dig in we will have a very real threat to our economy. There is no realistic threat to the second amendment, but the "us" and "them" tinfoil hat nonsense is a threat to our Republic as much as it is to your lucidity personally.

If you took anything I said as being sarcastic, arrogant, or condescending...I assure that was in no way the intent. All the best!

[BjornF16]

Riiiggghhhtt (Right)...and that is why we have the 1934 NFA, the 1968 Gun Control Act, the 1986 Firearm Owner "Protection" Act, and the 1994 AWB...cuz nothing ever gets done in Congress.

Every single one of the above was the result of knee jerk, emotional reaction to some event/events.

Normally, they wouldn't pass, but something like Newtown may just be enough to push it over. If you think it can't happen, just review the above list and then look to Australia and UK. They passed gun bans after significant emotional events as well.

[KentuckyBuddha]

Deleted post was moronic of me...it won't happen again. Enjoy.

[Y85]

I've been refraining from posting since Newtown because my heart is broken, like everyone else's here, by the realization that the instruments of our avocation have been turned on children. I will not rehash all that has gone before on this thread but I have been reading it all. I understand the fears, and the passion, behind these postings but, I for one, still believe that this is a nation of laws, of checks and balances, of ugly and visceral debate, and of loyal, honorable citizens who can (and must) disagree and yet live together in peace. We are better than this and the glorious experiment that is this nation has survived such storms before, and will again, lest our generation be the one that loses the "last, best hope of earth." And so, +1 to KentuckyBuddha, I concur.

[BjornF16]

I'm not sure why y'all seem to be getting upset.

I fully support the Constitution and the process that it brings. I'm open for debate...however, the Constitution is the Constitution, amendments and all. I spent 21+ years actively defending it in uniform. I am still obligated by that oath I took.

I merely want our legislators to also honor the oath they take. That is my point. So use the process, contact your congressmen, and support lobby organizations who communicate with congress and let them know we want the Constitution honored. How can anyone be upset by that?

There is NO call for rebellion here...but the legislators need to be reminded about their oath to the Constitution and that they need to work within the Constitution.

1939's Supreme Court ruling in U.S. v Miller has already affirmed that the text of the 2nd Amendment applies to the people, not to state or federal organizations; and that the "arms" it is referring to are that which an army would use.

Frankly, I don't know why 1986 FOPA hasn't been challenged (or if it has, why it didn't make it to SCOTUS). Likewise, why the 1994 AWB wasn't challenged and thrown out. We already have precedence in 1939.

Nobody likes seeing innocents targeted like this...but I would remind y'all that it is not just guns. The single worst mass murder of school children in the U.S. occurred in 1939 without the use of guns. There are other weapons/tools that get used all over the world. It is not the tool...it is the people who commit the heinous acts.

As Benjamin Franklin said..."A Republic, if you can keep it".



ETA:

Hopefully that will be all it takes...

If this is what is bothering y'all...I'm referring to the court system. I hope it doesn't come down to having to go to court to get non-constitutional legislation reversed.

[KentuckyBuddha]

I wasn't upset at all. I just suggested reason and civility was a better gambit for discourse and leads to better decision making. I was also pretty much immediately sorry I did it.

I could not be more grateful for your service or more in harmony with your position supporting the fundamental values of our Republic. All the best sir.

[Deer Hunter]

I've been refraining from posting since Newtown because my heart is broken, like everyone else's here, by the realization that the instruments of our avocation have been turned on children. I will not rehash all that has gone before on this thread but I have been reading it all. I understand the fears, and the passion, behind these postings but, I for one, still believe that this is a nation of laws, of checks and balances, of ugly and visceral debate, and of loyal, honorable citizens who can (and must) disagree and yet live together in peace. We are better than this and the glorious experiment that is this nation has survived such storms before, and will again, lest our generation be the one that loses the "last, best hope of earth." And so, +1 to KentuckyBuddha, I concur.

All our hearts hurt for these children and we want nothing from anybody except to be left alone and the Govt will not do that so yes we are pissed. Do you remember my words to you on your post about thoughts while hunting on Nov 10th after the election? "Within 3 hours of re-electiin President Obama contacted the UN and gave his full support for the UN weapons ban. A couple of days lateSen Frankenstein was already talking about a re-instatement of the weapons ban back then." Forgive me but I hate to tell you I told you so, look back at the post and tell me im wrong.

[Grendel-Gene]

I think we need to separate emotion from facts:

The FACTS are that our guns had nothing to do with the Sandy Hook crime... or any other. Most of the violent gun crime is not committed with ARs or even Grendels; And we all know that if a firearm is involved, its usually some cheap handgun in the hands of a democrat from the ghetto.
The FACTS are that we have a government that seeks to expand its power and control over almost every aspect of our lives; Obamacare, Cap and Trade, the largest tax increase in history in a few days, warrantless surveillance.... you name it.
The FACTS are that as long as there are well armed citizens out there who could oppose them, they will use any tragedy like Sandy Hook to further their agenda of total control. They want SHEEPLE!!!
The FACTS are that we have a constitution that protects our rights to bear arms, and yet these people don't care.
The FACTS are the in this country people are innocent until proven guilty. So why take their guns?

I could go on and on, but he FACTS are obvious to anyone who wants to see them.


So the last thing i want to do is offend anyone here ( Kentucky Buddha included).... but we also need to get a grip, wake up and smell the barrack!

WE are up to OUR NECKS in it... and we are about to be buried alive if we don't wake up!

[kegs]

Damn right Gene.

[Deer Hunter]

i think we need to separate emotion from facts:

The facts are that our guns had nothing to do with the sandy hook crime... Or any other. Most of the violent gun crime is not committed with ars or even grendels; and we all know that if a firearm is involved, its usually some cheap handgun in the hands of a democrat from the ghetto.
The facts are that we have a government that seeks to expand its power and control over almost every aspect of our lives; obamacare, cap and trade, the largest tax increase in history in a few days, warrantless surveillance.... You name it.
The facts are that as long as there are well armed citizens out there who could oppose them, they will use any tragedy like sandy hook to further their agenda of total control. They want sheeple!!!
The facts are that we have a constitution that protects our rights to bear arms, and yet these people don't care.
The facts are the in this country people are innocent until proven guilty. So why take their guns?


I could go on and on, but he facts are obvious to anyone who wants to see them.


So the last thing i want to do is offend anyone here ( kentucky buddha included).... But we also need to get a grip, wake up and smell the barrack!

We are up to our necks in it... And we are about to be buried alive if we don't wake up!

damn skippy!

[BjornF16]

Gun Control will be this presidential 4 year's term version of ObamaCare:

"President Obama on Sunday said he would make gun control a priority in his new term, pledging to put his “full weight” behind passing new restrictions on firearms in 2013."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...es-in-2013

[sneaky one]

Let us begin anew- lame duck pres.=time to start the impeachment proccess
-He can't even end the fiscal -cliff=Really?? Almost sounds like treason., & the reason. I could get the -cliiff - done in 20 min. Un f-ing real.
Call -email your idiotic officials-tonite, and all day tommorrow-remind them all, hey we pay your fat & sassy paychecks---and you all can't effffffing negotiate a deal???????????????? I am done being -governed= by too much scary & lame old school crap, time to punch a hole forward.

Round up the mentally ill, & challenged. Let's have a huge sit down, and fix this quick. No need to surrender anything . Time to advance, teach the sheep.
Self defense., and the rights of the 2nd Amend. shall not -ever be challenged, ever again after this idiotic mess is put to rest.,, if so? it's time to stand our ground for civil war, part 2- I won't back down-=I never ever quit. I am pissed.

[montana]

Gun Control will be this presidential 4 year's term version of ObamaCare:

"President Obama on Sunday said he would make gun control a priority in his new term, pledging to put his “full weight” behind passing new restrictions on firearms in 2013."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...es-in-2013

I notice their answer is never about keeping law abiding gun owners armed , trained or finding better ways to keep guns out of nut's hands, its always about banning certain firearms that are not even used in most murders but firearms that are a threat to tyrannical governments. Amazing coincident.

[Grendel-Gene]

Keeping the nuts locked up ( like the guys that murder their 90 year old grandmothers with an "assault" claw hammer ) is THEIR JOB, and they are obviously failing at it miserably. So since they are worthless, why not distract the sheeple with "gun control" to not only hide their total incompetence, but advancing their agenda of absolute control in the process??? They are not stupid; They are evil... which is PRECISELY why we must never give in an inch.

[montana]

Massachusetts released a pedophile from custody on the understanding he left the state permanently so he to move to Great falls Mt. The authorities of Massachusetts didn't bother to inform anyone in Montana about this nut job and we found out later after little kids disappeared and cannibalized remains were found on his property. I guess they were too busy writing new anti-gun legislation. If true mental health issues were addressed in this country the progressive mind set would be the first on the list........Who's more the fool-the fool who leads or the fool who follows?

[sneaky one]

Impeach- Let's start the process fellow Americans. It's our time now- to plan for the future. ALSO- Go after the MOMS that lock up the ill-sons in the basement for decades---what is your long range plan mom? Why do we need to see, & deal with the instability- of your -really bad plan???? Mental illness is real-=no more hiding of one's children- that could benefit from living in a facility-of care, and hope, and lots of help. We need mental health care reform, not the gun issue. Time for us all to rise up -on this issue.

[BjornF16]

While he could be impeached in the House, the Senate would never convict him...unless we have a dramatic change of membership in the Senate in 2014