So im curious for those in the know, can and will they send the military after our guns? Or will it be the ATF? Am I being paranoid or do I see my Govt literally considering moving against gun owners. This is a question I never thought in a million years that i would be asking, but when multi billion dollar companies like Wal mart are bowing to the anti gunners well it has gotten my attention.
Please someone tell me im wrong.
A Special Forces senior NCO did his Masters Thesis and research project on this back in the early 1990's, IIRC. It was censored and sealed. He and his sons all held the entire 18 series of MOS's together, and were in 19th SFG I think. He surveyed Armed Forces personnel, including Many Marines in the Camp Pendleton/San Diego area.
I think it makes more sense for a drawn-out insurgency with Central American narco-terrorists acting as surrogates, but they may just prolong it to the point that many of these actors slowly take over at the municipal level from within, displacing the current corrupt or clean city councils, school boards, and police departments. Most of them are already penetrated and influenced by the drug trade, since the money is too big to put back in the bag.
You have to ask why this WH & State Department have spiked the Foreign Military Sales to Mexico since 2009 at unprecedented levels, aside from the Fast & Furious scandal.
![[Image: mexican-cartels1.jpg]](http://inpublicsafety.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/mexican-cartels1.jpg)
LRRPF52 Wrote:A Special Forces senior NCO did his Masters Thesis and research project on this back in the early 1990's, IIRC. It was censored and sealed. He and his sons all held the entire 18 series of MOS's together, and were in 19th SFG I think. He surveyed Armed Forces personnel, including Many Marines in the Camp Pendleton/San Diego area.
I think it makes more sense for a drawn-out insurgency with Central American narco-terrorists acting as surrogates, but they may just prolong it to the point that many of these actors slowly take over at the municipal level from within, displacing the current corrupt or clean city councils, school boards, and police departments. Most of them are already penetrated and influenced by the drug trade, since the money is too big to put back in the bag.
You have to ask why this WH & State Department have spiked the Foreign Military Sales to Mexico since 2009 at unprecedented levels, aside from the Fast & Furious scandal.
Damn I was afraid id get some kind of answer like that.
If you were sending in an army of insurgents with a logistics chain stacked up behind them via Mexico and Cuba, would you want the US populace to be armed with military-style weapons?
The good news for them is that Congress & FDR already passed the most restrictive piece of legislation against us back in 1934, so we won't have the appropriate anti-armor and anti-aircraft weapons at our disposal.
With our military taking orders from a guy who nobody really knows, and is backed by the communists, surrounded by WH staff who praise comrade Mao, and our State Militias (mislabeled National Guard) doing triple-time duty overseas as reserve troops for the National standing Army, the States aren't left with much internal defense. I don't need to discuss our non-existent border security, unless someone is completely ignorant of how things really work down there. I served in 3 different units that did JTF-6 rotations, and it was worse than I wanted to believe back in 1995-1996, let along now. That was before NAFTA took effect.
I know, I just hoped someone would convince me I was wrong. Thanks for the info.
I think your being paranoid. This government is willing to play politics with Americans , but does not have the courage to confront insurgents in Iraq or terrorists elsewhere. Pass laws? sure they do that kind of thing but should just 50 million American gun owners just refuse to collaborate or passively ignore the law The government will just ignore its own laws. Kinda like people using pot.
hm2 clark Wrote:I think your being paranoid. This government is willing to play politics with Americans , but does not have the courage to confront insurgents in Iraq or terrorists elsewhere. Pass laws? sure they do that kind of thing but should just 50 million American gun owners just refuse to collaborate or passively ignore the law The government will just ignore its own laws. Kinda like people using pot.
You know most of the time I would agree with you but this administration from the onset has said what they were going to do then they did exactly what they said and the Constitution be damned and thats what scares the crap out of me. They are fundamentally transforming America into some piece of sh*t third world country.....on purpose.
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I am not a lawyer or expert in this, but The Posse Comitatus Act regulates the use of US Army and Air Force in CONUS (Continental United States). Basically, as I understand it working on the periphery of a couple of CONUS actions (to include CJTF-6 referred to by LRRPF52), to use federal military forces it requires a request from the legitimate state government and approval of the U.S. Congress. This was a big deal post Katrina (on the periphery of that as well) and there was an amendment to the act that would authorize military force for national emergencies/natural disasters.
Keep in mind, Marines from 1stMarDiv were dispatched to L.A. in ‘94 for the riots…believe this was under another clause of the act dealing with armed insurrection.
BLUF – Who knows? Situation will dictate. The U.S. military was not used at Waco or Ruby Ridge, but could they be in the future? Interesting question…
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12-19-2012, 06:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2012, 06:24 PM by Michael.)
I am not a lawyer or expert in this, but The Posse Comitatus Act regulates the use of US Army and Air Force in CONUS (Continental United States). Basically, as I understand it working on the periphery of a couple of CONUS actions (to include CJTF-6 referred to by LRRPF52), to use federal military forces it requires a request from the legitimate state government and approval of the U.S. Congress. This was a big deal post Katrina (on the periphery of that as well) and there was an amendment to the act that would authorize military force for national emergencies/natural disasters.
Keep in mind, Marines from 1stMarDiv were dispatched to L.A. in ‘94 for the riots…believe this was under another clause of the act dealing with armed insurrection.
BLUF – Who knows? Situation will dictate. The U.S. military was not used at Waco or Ruby Ridge, but could they be in the future? Interesting question…
Sorry - double post
The Posse Comitatus Act does not include the Marine Corps however the Navy and Marine Corps are prohibited from acting as a police force by Dept. of Defense regulations. The Coast Guard which comes under Homeland Security can and does act as a police force.
None of this will stop the current administration for coming up with some fantasy reason to use the military.
Quote:The U.S. military was not used at Waco or Ruby Ridge, but could they be in the future? Interesting question…
Actually, there were members of SFOD-D at Waco in an advisory role. The former commander of SFOD-D testified at the Congressional hearings on Waco, and his testimony was scathing as to the government's execution of that disastrous catastrophe.
National Guard troops in M113 APC's were called-in to support the FBI after the US Marshalls, ATF, and FBI told them that a deranged "Green Beret"/illegal weapons trafficker/drug dealer/white supremacist had killed US Marshalls.
davidj Wrote:The Posse Comitatus Act does not include the Marine Corps however the Navy and Marine Corps are prohibited from acting as a police force by Dept. of Defense regulations. The Coast Guard which comes under Homeland Security can and does act as a police force.
None of this will stop the current administration for coming up with some fantasy reason to use the military.
This is precisely my concern. Ive always thought that in the end the Constitution was what We as a people and a Government suppose to uphold. I no longer believe that the Constitution is being considered by 1/2 the people and definately not by last the two Administrations.
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LRRPF52 Wrote:Actually, there were members of SFOD-D at Waco in an advisory role. The former commander of SFOD-D testified at the Congressional hearings on Waco, and his testimony was scathing as to the government's execution of that disastrous catastrophe.
National Guard troops in M113 APC's were called-in to support the FBI after the US Marshalls, ATF, and FBI told them that a deranged "Green Beret"/illegal weapons trafficker/drug dealer/white supremacist had killed US Marshalls. Beat me to it. I'm limited in what I can say, but there were active military resources (equipment, etc.) used at Waco too. They used the drug war justification crap to swing it.
Partial admission: http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/bl090599.htm
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Michael Wrote:I am not a lawyer or expert in this, but The Posse Comitatus Act regulates the use of US Army and Air Force in CONUS (Continental United States). Basically, as I understand it working on the periphery of a couple of CONUS actions (to include CJTF-6 referred to by LRRPF52), to use federal military forces it requires a request from the legitimate state government and approval of the U.S. Congress. This was a big deal post Katrina (on the periphery of that as well) and there was an amendment to the act that would authorize military force for national emergencies/natural disasters.
Keep in mind, Marines from 1stMarDiv were dispatched to L.A. in ‘94 for the riots…believe this was under another clause of the act dealing with armed insurrection.
BLUF – Who knows? Situation will dictate. The U.S. military was not used at Waco or Ruby Ridge, but could they be in the future? Interesting question… I had to look up the acronym "BLUF" (I'm kinda slow sometimes...  ). Scared me for a second there with what came up first!LOL Breeches and Leather??? Whoooo boy! What is this world turning into? 
I have a buddy thats a Marine Reservist. Last year his unit was told to be ready to respond anywhere in the state. And thats about all they were given, no threat accessment, no objective, no reason, just be ready. Sadly, the military does not teach its members much about the Constitution, so they, in effect, have no idea what they've sworn an oath to, even after the fact. And not much is said about what is an unlawful order. The National guard was used to disarm citizens after Hurricane katrina, so it is more than possible they will be used in an attempt to disarm us again. One man's paraniod is another man's writing on the wall!
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Ultimately it is the duty of Commissioned Officers to give, and only obey, lawful orders. Definitely the Posse Hakuna Matata thing should apply (ducwidt), unless you get a Bonus Marchers kind of unconscionable act or something which admittedly could happen again. One certainly hopes not though.
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Yes, ICWUDT.LOL!
Agreed.
Bonus Marchers.... That is very scary stuff. My youngest is only 5yrs. old, and I have to make it through almost 9 more years to see a decent retirement. I can't afford to get shot or fired for my families sake. They know not to turn the heat up far enough to make our choices easy. They go in small steps to keep us cowed, lest we find enough reason to make it worth going all the way. Like an abusive relationship, they build it up in steps. They don't come at you full tilt until they think they've destroyed your will to resist.
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Yes, ICWUDT.LOL!
Agreed.
Bonus Marchers.... That is very scary stuff. My youngest is only 5yrs. old, and I have to make it through almost 9 more years to see a decent retirement. I can't afford to get shot or fired for my families sake. They know not to turn the heat up far enough to make our choices easy. They go in small steps to keep us cowed, lest we find enough reason to make it worth going all the way. Like an abusive relationship, they build it up in steps. They don't come at you full tilt until they think they've destroyed your will to resist.
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Yes, ICWUDT.LOL!
Agreed.
Bonus Marchers.... That is very scary stuff. My youngest is only 5yrs. old, and I have to make it through almost 9 more years to see a decent retirement. I can't afford to get shot or fired for my families sake. They know not to turn the heat up far enough to make our choices easy. They go in small steps to keep us cowed, lest we find enough reason to make it worth going all the way. Like an abusive relationship, they build it up in steps. They don't come at you full tilt until they think they've destroyed your will to resist.
Our single best hope is political reform. I know that's becoming a much larger joke by the day, but I pray we can somehow get it turned around peacefully.
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Deer Hunter Wrote:So im curious for those in the know, can and will they send the military after our guns? Or will it be the ATF? Am I being paranoid or do I see my Govt literally considering moving against gun owners. This is a question I never thought in a million years that i would be asking, but when multi billion dollar companies like Wal mart are bowing to the anti gunners well it has gotten my attention.
Please someone tell me im wrong.
DH:
Wallmart is a commercial enterprise. They have no moral or legal obligation to sell any specific thing and if they think their profits suffer because they are carrying something, that something will be removed from sale. They are not a political entity.
As for the Regulars coming after your guns. It is absurd for a couple of reasons. First, there is the legal issue. Every single civil rights organization will sue to stop such a thing and they will be right. And, they will be supported by the courts. Unless there is violent anarchy such as full out revolution. Second, you guys need to get a grip on how big the US military is compared to the USA and ask yourself just how they will search everyone's houses for guns. Get a real grip on that one because I expect it would take the entire US military -- every individual from every service -- to cordon off and search a city as big as Tacoma, Washington. And, that would take months itself. Let alone cities like Chicago, LA, etc. And the leftists would have fits if their houses were entered by military personnel no matter the probable cause.
And, the military today would probably not obey an order to go into US population areas and enforce civil law. Don't short change the military or think they are mindless robots like democrats think they are. The leadership in the military are extremely smart guys who understand the constitution better than a democrat. They aren't about to do anything that violates the true meaning of the Constitution.
Finally, it isn't necessary to get the military involved. You will lose your guns eventually. It will be done in small steps such as magazine bans, ammunition bans, bans on firing ranges, etc. that will set the stage for people to say "you have no where to shoot them so why should you even own them?" Then, three critical things will happen before you will hand your guns over. First, you will be ordered to register them. Then it is only a matter time. After being promised that if you register them, you will be able to keep them, the communists will find a way to tax you per gun. It won't be called a tax because they have already lost that one in court. However, you will be forced to pay a fee every year per gun like the guys do who have Class III licenses. This tax will get bigger each year until you can't afford it anymore and turn your guns in. For those who can pay the tax, eventually the guns will be outright banned and then you can either turn them in or have a LEA enter your house with probable cause and confiscate them. That is how it will go. The military won't have to get involved. Oh yes, you won't be allowed to sell them or give them away, either.
My advice is to join the NRA or give them a few dollars a month until this one is over. I haven't given them money in years because I am sick of their spam and sky is falling BS. However, this time it is warranted as in no time since I can recall in my life is there more of a chance for you to lose your firearms than within the next six months. Luckily, Biden is in charge and he is such an incompetent, bombastic, ass, that he will probably turn off some of the leftists who would otherwise support him. Obama must understand that by giving this to Biden, there is a good chance that nothing will happen at all. I won't take that chance so will send a few dollars to the NRA and delete the five or ten spam messages they will send me daily begging for more money.
The NRA needs to pull its head from its ass and realize that there are thousands of guys like me who stopped donating because of their scare tactics and spam. They need to look closely at how they solicit. If I get inundated with their solicitation calls, e-mails, and letters after I make a donation, I will stop donating to them again for another twenty plus years. And, I am a life member too.
LR1955
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