Bullet keyhole / tumbling problem...BHW barrel???

[ricsmall]

I think hes already tried a different scope, and also shot at fifty yards. That barrel is whacked I think.

[BlackHoleWeaponry]

Greetings everyone,

This is Krystin, I am the Custom Graphics person for BHW. I came across this post during a search and I'd like to help resolve this problem.

Was bolt matched to barrel? I think BHW has made barrels headspaced two different ways: standard (Type 1), and Grendel-type recessed (Type 2).

This is True. After May/June of last year(2011) the headspacing of our barrels changed to conform with some of the industry standards. We refer to this head spacing as Type I and Type II to differentiate between the two different bolt sizes that are out there. All of our 264 LBC/6.5 barrels are now head spaced to the Type II pattern. Thank you Drifter for posting the link to our YouTube channel.

A Type II bolt is 0.135 deep while a Type I is 0.125 Deep. It's only a ten thousandth's difference but it can make a big difference. If you have a depth Mic on hand, that's a good way to tell the type of bolt you may be using.

Finished building it in February of this year, but haven't had a lot of time to shoot it.

Tailgate, you mentioned you made your build in February of this year, so I can assume that the barrels is head spaced for a Type II bolt. Although I do not know if the barrel was purchased directly from us or one of our various dealers so it may not be a good Gage as to how old the barrel itself is. A way to tell is to look on the back of the barrel.

At the end of the September 2011 I started laser engraving on the back of all our barrels whether or not it is a Type I or Type II. If it is a barrel made after last September, you *should* see a line of text that reads along the lines of "264LBC Type II 1X9 SS P3" laser marked with or without our logo. Anything made previously just has the traditional extension stamp. The only 6.5 barrels that I do not laser are barrels that have been fluted but in front of and behind the gas block.



So to recap:

-If you have a depth mic on hand, measure the bolt face. Type II bolt is 0.135 deep while a Type I is 0.125 Deep

-Check to see if there is lasering on the back that indicates if your barrel is Type I or Type II

If you are unable to confirm these two steps due to no lasering present on the barrel or lack of the specific tooling, please get in touch with Andy, our shop foreman here at BHW, in a way that is convenient for you.

By phone:
Andy's direct line: 509-793-5374
BHW Line #2: 509-760-5703

By email:
andy.bhw@gmail.com

He will help you out and determine if it isn't the bolt/barrel combo and do need to send a replacement your way. We have a no-questions replacement policy on our barrels. Our #1 concern is to make sure you as the shooter are happy with your BHW barrel and, most importantly, it is shooting properly. I *think* we do still have a few Type 1 chambered barrels on hand that are available by request for folks who may have the Type I bolts although I'm not sure of what size and gas length are still available, as I'm not currently at the shop this moment.


I hope that helps. By all means, please get in touch with us. The sooner you do the sooner we can get you back to the range.

Best regards,

Krystin
Illustrator Custom Laser Graphics
Black Hole Weaponry
509-760-5703
Blackholeweaponry.com
blackholeweaponry.proboards.com

[Tailgate]

Kristin...I emailed BHW on Friday, five days ago with all of this information and have not had a response. Also left Andy a detailed voicemail and referenced my email but havenot heard back. I'm out of town. May be home romorrow or Friday. As for my barrel, I ordered it direct and gave you my order number and order date and delivery date.

Also, while I don't believe my bolt and barrel are mismatched...even if they were, I don't think it would cause a keyhole problem.

Lastly, I want to make sure BHW does not think I'm upset with them, because I'm not. Just frustrated in diagnosing the cause of the problem. I'm sure I'm in good hands with BHW. Thanks in advance.

[BlackHoleWeaponry]

OK. I will look into it for you. I'm headed to the shop right now.

-Krystin

EDIT:

I have an update. I talked to our office staff, and they informed me that Andy has been out sick since Thursday with Pneumonia! I work back and forth between my office and the shop so it's not uncommon for me to not see him as he also bounces around for meetings or to get shop supplies.

I did shoot him a text on his personal number though and he says he would like for you to send us your barrel so we can examine it to see what may have caused the key-holing and document it for our records. I'll PM you with our shipping account number. You can get it to us when you return home (at no cost to yourself this way) and we can get a replacement going as well.

I appreciate your confidence in our team and if there's anything else I or one of the office girls can do to help, please let us know!

-Krystin

[Lead Chucker]

Wow! Cant beat that for CS! Not my barrel, but thanks Krystin for coming into this and helping a guy out! Hope it all works out for both of you.

[Tailgate]

Quick update...I've been traveling my rear off for a couple months, so this has been at the back of my priority list. I was home long enough to send my upper assembly to Andy at BHW who has been in contact with me a few times. He too believes they need to look at the barrel to figure out what's going on. So, I shipped it while on the road (didn't even have time to ship it from home) last week. Hopefully we'll know something in the next few weeks.

[Vartarg]

I had the exact same problem earlier in the year with a BHW 6X45 barrel....everything keyholed at 25, 50 & 100yds at normal velocity....sent the upper back, and BHW replaced the barrel & shipped it back. Problem solved, tho I never got an explanation for what caused it....Andy said "there may have been an anomaly."

George

[LRRPF52]

That usually means inclusions.

[Tailgate]

'Nuther update...

Andy got my upper, removed the barrel, and turned a new one for me. BHW shipped out a new barrel that should be arriving in a few days. Haven't heard what the investigation might have revealed...then again, he was making me a new barrel before he even took the old one off, so don't know if he's had a chance to scope the old one or not. Once my new one comes in and I get it all reassembled, I'll give a range report.

[sneaky one]

Pimp him hardcore as to what caliber -he actually first sent you=.270, .308?????????????????/ Good lorde... no more excuses for company negligence. Someone has to be accountable for this BS!

[Tailgate]

Pimp him hardcore as to what caliber -he actually first sent you=.270, .308?????????????????/ Good lorde... no more excuses for company negligence. Someone has to be accountable for this BS!

I would like to know what the verdict is...however, I highly doubt it was a .270 or larger. I tried a 6.5 bullet in the muzzle...there was no way it was going in there. Don't think it would have been that tight on a .270 bore.

[Whelenon]

Sounds like they have some dirty laundry in shop that will probably remain in-house. Judging from their customer service response they are bending over backward trying to resolve the problem. Hopefully this is just an isolated problem for BHW but it looks like they are aware of it and doing whatever it take to satisfy thr customer. IMHO

[Bill Alexander]

I doubt that there is anything insidious in this. Any barrel maker can on occasion get a problem child. Sometimes it is obvious what is happening and sometimes the problem is so subtle that it is near impossible to find, but the result is still ugly. For the manufacturer the calculation is simply, "do I invest hours or even weeks finding what is happening on a single one off item and then replace it, or do I just replace it quickly".

I had one a few weeks back. Customer was complaining his barrel would not shoot and initial inspection did not show anything up. We could then have mounted the barrel, shot it, seen an accuracy problem and after expending many shop hours and probably a couple of boxes of ammunition ended up replacing the barrel. Instead we just sent a new barrel. We actually did eventually find the problem when we gauged the bore end to end. There were two tiny tight spots where the set screws that fasten the gas block had been run in and the smith had dimpled the barrel too deeply. I intend to shoot the barrel after it has sat for a a year or two and see if the stress has relaxed and fixed the problem. This is casual interest stuff and taking two months to diagnose a problem and then telling a customer that his barrel is going to take another year or two to sort out is not practical.

From the good sounds I have heard of BHW I would have expected the response given. They are responsive and realistic about any problems.

[Tailgate]

I doubt that there is anything insidious in this. Any barrel maker can on occasion get a problem child.

Mr. Alexander, I FULLY AGREE with your assessment. In fact, as stated in my original post on this topic, I was very reluctant to even blame the barrel itself, as I know there are so many factors that could cause accuracy problems. It's similar to a lot of people blaming a gun or the sights for the poor accuracy, when you have to look at them and say, "No, actually it's YOU." I guess we humans are quick to say, "It couldn't POSSIBLY be ME!!! I'm PERFECT!!!" Ha! I've been busted myself accusing a weapons sights to "be off," when the next guy picked it up and shot dead-on with it, and the third guy too. A little humble pie once in a while is good for the digestion.

[ricsmall]

I doubt that there is anything insidious in this. Any barrel maker can on occasion get a problem child. Sometimes it is obvious what is happening and sometimes the problem is so subtle that it is near impossible to find, but the result is still ugly. For the manufacturer the calculation is simply, "do I invest hours or even weeks finding what is happening on a single one off item and then replace it, or do I just replace it quickly".

I had one a few weeks back. Customer was complaining his barrel would not shoot and initial inspection did not show anything up. We could then have mounted the barrel, shot it, seen an accuracy problem and after expending many shop hours and probably a couple of boxes of ammunition ended up replacing the barrel. Instead we just sent a new barrel. We actually did eventually find the problem when we gauged the bore end to end. There were two tiny tight spots where the set screws that fasten the gas block had been run in and the smith had dimpled the barrel too deeply. I intend to shoot the barrel after it has sat for a a year or two and see if the stress has relaxed and fixed the problem. This is casual interest stuff and taking two months to diagnose a problem and then telling a customer that his barrel is going to take another year or two to sort out is not practical.

From the good sounds I have heard of BHW I would have expected the response given. They are responsive and realistic about any problems.

Bill

how deep should the dimples be on a barrel that is .875 at the gas block in a 6.5 G ? just curious.

Thanks
Richard

[sneaky one]

Thanks Bill, for all the info,, and products you supply here. Your voice here keeps some of us - on target.

I am sure it's a pain to run a bbl. making machine, or 3 -plus the employees! Your recent approach to solving issues is a godsend to all. Thanks to all of you at Alexander Arms.

I'm sure BHW gang will find the problem, and correct it. Ummmmm, BTW,, what's up w/ the 6.5 BPC? Palisimo,,?

[Tailgate]

Well...I can't read. The invoice sent me by BHW says the new barrel is shipping out in January 2013...so it will be awhile before I can post results. So, will resurrect this thread once it's here, put back together, taken it to the range, etc.

[sneaky one]

Tailgate, good to hear it's being taken care of. I'm sure they will send you a fully inspected, & measured bbl. Good shooting once it arrives.