AR won't cycle steel cases

[michaelmew]

I got together with some family over the weekend and my cousin has an AR that won't cycle steel case ammo (Tula from Wal-Mart). He says brass cases run like a champ, but we didn't have any so I couldn't verify. This is for a .223, not Grendel. We stripped the BCG and gas block and tube and gave it a thorough cleaning (not inside the tube though), but to no avail.

Any ideas on what could be causing the malfunction or how to fix it? A quick Google search tells me this isn't all that uncommon, what do you guys think?

BTW, everyone loved shooting my Grendel. I was not suprised .


-mm

[Drifter]

The chamber might be .223 or .223 Wylde, and trying to run steel-cased 5.56 ammo can be problematic. I don't think steel expands and retracts in the same manner as brass, thus sometimes leading to problems. It could also be one brand that's problematic in a particular chamber.

I have a .223 Wylde chamber that runs fine with most steel-cased 5.56 ammo, but not with Wolf. If it fires, it doesn't extract.

Describe the problem with a little more detail. Does the case stick in the chamber, or is it extracted? Also, which chamber?

[montana]

I have a 3 Bushmaster barreled AR,s that won,t run steel case ammo. My Stag Arms and Bravo company AR barrels work fine. I think some chambers are tighter than others and have seen this happen with other competitors AR,s.

[LRRPF52]

I've owned AR's that ran on steel case as long as you kept the gun hot. I could go for 300 rounds without issue, but if I let the gun cool down a little, it was stuck like Chuck as soon as I started blasting again.

I've seen Bushmasters that both couldn't run on steel case, and others that ate it like candy. All had 4150 CMV Chrome-lined barrels.

Slight variations in the chamber dimensions gun-to-gun can cause this. If you plan to run steel case, you can polish your chamber so that any rough surfaces from the tooling process no longer provide a textured surface for the steel case to purchase aggressively, preventing extraction.

The best surface for this is a Melonited (nitro-carburized) barrel, in my opinion. The surface is so smooth with a 68-70 Rockwell hardness, that steel case runs through it like butter.

I personally avoid steel case in my 5.56 NATO & .223 Wylde chambered AR15's, as I see malf after malf with it in high-volume courses. I do have several Nitro-carburized barrels that I might just run it through, but I have so many piles of 5.56 and .223 brass, I don't have a need to mess with steel right now.

[Brag]

Tula didn't work well for me, I almost gave up on steel cased ammo, but I was turned on to Wolf WPA(from Aim surplus), and it runs in all my AR's, 5.56 and Wylde chambers. Tula fit great in an old 20 inch Bushmaster, but it short cycled often.

Before you think your rifle has issues, try some wolf, then give the Tula to a friend of a friend(don't give the headache to a friend).

I only tried Tula once(From Sportsmans Warehouse), so due to the small sample, its not a scientific test, but I'll pass on the Tula 5.56 ammo.

[BluntForceTrauma]

There is also the consideration, and Bill A. explained this to me in regard to the development of 65G steel-case ammo, that steel gets more finicky as chamber pressures increase. If I've got the engineering correct, steel has less spring back than brass, and so pressures must be reasonable to avoid really gluing it to the chamber walls.

It was his opinion that even AR pressures are starting to push it. I don't know what 7.62x39 steel-case typically runs at in an AK versus .223/5.56 steel-case pressures in an AR.

John

[LRRPF52]

AK runs much lower, at 50,000 psi or less, while the 5.56 NATO runs at 52,000+. That's why 7.62x39 has such a rainbow trajectory with a starting mv of 2350fps, pushing fat little monkey-humped football-shaped projectiles, which doesn't affect third-world Soviet doctrine in the slightest, since the AK was envisioned to be used as a sub-machinegun more than a rifle, and that is how untrained peasants have applied it to warfare ever since.

The Soviets realized the failure of ground combatant unit-level and higher logistics strains the 7.62x39 puts on the system, as well as its lacking terminal effects on tissue, especially when faced with the M16 in the Southeast Asian Conflict, where over 85% of the engagements were decisively won by the US, Aussies, and ROK forces against North Vietnamese Army, Viet Cong, and the guerilla militia's armed with 7.62x39 Type 56 weapons.

Before the fall of Saigon, Russia had introduced the 5.45x39 standard assault rifle cartridge and the new AK-74 rifle to fire it, soon to see service within 5 years in the Afghan-Soviet War. Certain Spetsnaz units still retained the AKMS in that conflict, with a heavy reliance on Bakelite magazines to reduce the insane weight of the steel AK mags, which weigh more empty than a fully-loaded 5.56 NATO STANAG 30rd aluminum mag. Look closely and you'll see the Bakelite mags:



Back to the Grendel. The fact that it uses a .300" neck diameter in the chamber will help tremendously with feeding a diet of steel case ammunition. I personally would like to see the smoothest surface finish on the steel cases as possible, and I like the idea that pre-primed cases would be sold en masse to US ammo makers, aside from this recent development:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/how-chinas...ld-economy

[rasp65]

LRR Interesting article I bet the house of cards falls on Dec 12 2012.

[grin&dull]

My HBAR Bushmater eats it fine at the rates of fire I do for plinking and 3 gun. But it's rare for me to ever do a hundred rounds and most of that is shoot, move, shoot, move with maybe 6 to 10 rounds between move so I'm not getting it real hot.

[fanofflyn]

I don't know because I don't run steel cases in my AR's, but I read somewhere that some of them had problems with the Lacquer coating the cases, and that when run hot, it starts depositing in the chamber, and when the gun cools, it becomes a problem in the chamber. Does anyone know if this is just hearsay or if this is really a problem with some brands. I now see aluminum cased ammo too, and I don't know much about it, but I would guess that wouldn't be as much a problem, but that is only a guess.

[VASCAR2]

The PD I retired from had problems with lacquer building up in the chambers and causing malfunctions. The steel cased ammo was purchased by Troopers and shot in dept. AR's. After the problems arose the Dept. Policy forbade steel cased ammo in Dept. AR's. My PD used Bushmasters, Armalites and Colt M-16 A-1 military surplus rifles. Range officers didn't think it was worth the risk of using steel cased ammo in a gun you might stake your life on. I've always felt brass was the best and have never fired any steel cased ammo in my AR's.

[pinzgauer]

The PD I retired from had problems with lacquer building up in the chambers and causing malfunctions.

Virtually none of the currently available steel case uses lacquer. It's some polymer that is slick and does not come off, get gummy, whatever.

Over 1000+ rounds of Tula & WPA steel case in an M4'gery without cleaning, not a single problem (chrome chamber/bore). Mini-14 GB model also loves it.

[rcvisket]

before i started loading my 223 i was running Hornady Steel Match 75gr. i had a similar problem occur every once in a while. i put a brass round on the bottom and kept an eye on my extractor and bolt face. 15K rounds and a year later it hasnt happened since.