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Bob,
That is the most informative online coaching I've rec'd...thanks!
I realize that there is no single "golden bullet" to my mechanics. The scope setup appears to be a significant issue. This morning the scope was moving approx 10" across target (at 100 yds, so 10 MOA) when I physically moved it left/right. I have spent the last couple of hours setting up the scope and rings properly, including using levels. One level on top of picatinny rail, the other on top of 12 o'clock knob.
I've never tried "truing" the targets to vertical...do y'all use a plumb bob to align targets?
I have been "muscling" the rifle to the target...I noticed this on my last session. I would remove my trigger hand completely from rifle and the sight would move several inches to the right of aim point. I need to spend more time in "setup" before pulling the trigger the first time.
I know that occasionally dry firing with pistol can reveal a "flinch" trying to oppose the muzzle flip. I suspect dry firing with rifle will reveal some similar reaction.
Question: How many rounds do you recommend sending down range for a single, quality shooting session?
Many thanks again!
I shoot with some of the nations top shooters, I don't claim to be one of them, they have many national records among them so I listen to what they say. Most of them dry fire many times the number of live rounds fired each year so that is some valuable information that most casual riflemen will never hear and if they did would not heed.
Most training sessions I hold with the state junior high power rifle team consists of 88 shots which is a standard regional match course of fire. 80 shots for record and 2 sighters for each stage. That is somewhat of an endurance test. So unless you are training for a match that requires endurance, I would limit to maybe 50 rounds. And those 50 shots should have a specific objective and have dryfire exercises incorporated.
I wouldn't worry about load development until you have the fundamentals mastered. Just pick a good load and stick with it.
Bob
By the way, I'm 58 years old and have fired tens of thousands of rounds in registered high power competitions, and I'm still learning. In fact next saturday I'll be training for the National Infantry Team Trophy match and my trainer is in his 60's. Learning to shoot a rifle well is a life long endeavor.
Bob
stokesrj Wrote:By the way, I'm 58 years old and have fired tens of thousands of rounds in registered high power competitions, and I'm still learning. In fact next saturday I'll be training for the National Infantry Team Trophy match and my trainer is in his 60's. Learning to shoot a rifle well is a life long endeavor.
Bob
Amen to that...
I read The Red Circle, by Brand Webb on the plane ride across the Pacific, and I was most impressed by what he was involved in with totally re-building the Naval Special Warfare Center Sniper Training program. They incorpotated a lot of unorthodox techniques, principles, and approaches to shooting, memory training, mental management, and instructor-student relationships to totally create a new regimen for making better SEAL Snipers, and the results paid off with measurable results.
They went to guys like Lanny Bassham, who wrote With Winning in Mind, and studied what an olympic shooter thinks, and how they think. They assigned student sniper pairs to instructors, and had all the instructors competing with each other to get their teams shooting better than the others, rather than the old, disconnected, "value attrition like it's a thing of pride" traditions where the blocks if instruction were given, and they could care less if you learned and demonstrated gaining new skill sets.
They started cranking out dudes who could shoot better than ever before, with much higher course standards, and more difficult training objectives. It was a totally "outside the box" approach to instruction, especially from within a military setting.
It sends home the statement about shooting being such a mental activity, and how mental focus and attitude play such a huge role in being a good shooter. I highly recommend the book, even though I look towards the Squeals from a perspective of rivalry.
I have read "With Winning in Mind" and have Larry's CD's as well. Good information.
Bob
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After lunch went to shoot my last 40 115 Bergers from AA. Went much better after adjusting scope. I went ahead and put my Harris bipod back on. Interestingly, the first shot after reloading always hit high. Not sure if there is something odd going on with bipod (bouncing, "loaded" differently after first shot?).
Shoot 4, dry fire 4. Repeat. Seems to help. Need lots more range time. The dry firing helps more than I would have thought. Ultimately saw very little movement in scope at trigger release. Results posted below: Group of 5 near end of 100 yd session; 100 yd session; 200 yd session (complete with rain storm between groups of 4).
Don't stop!
Those groups say that a squirrel is in deep doo-doo at the 200 yard mark. Also, mouse at 75-100 yards would be at risk if you could see him first! 
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BjornF16 Wrote:LOL...
I guess I don't know how to read instructions. :o Both of my LaRue Tactical unimounts were slightly loose. I failed to tighten the bottom screws completely first, before tightening the upper screws. I noticed this morning at the range that there was some "wiggle" in my NF scope. Didn't bother shooting; just brought her home.
You aren't the only one!LOL I put them on right for a while, and then I hadn't mounted any for a spell and brain farted when I mounted up my 2.5-10x NF. Same exact thing. Scope wiggle = "WTH???".... "Awww crap!" I felt so stupid I neglected to mention it for a while.  I'm just glad it was one that went on one of my guns and not someone else's. I'd have never lived it down if I had done that one on somebody else's setup!!!:o
Always read the distractions...I mean destructions....I mean instructions.
Nice groups BjornF16. Yes, dry-firing is a common practice among competitive shooters as stokesrj pointed out, accounting for more trigger time than actual live fire, even with some range sessions exceeding a thousand rounds for action shooters.
ChellieWiles
Unregistered
my technique when shooting is to put the crosshairs on where I want to hit and pull the trigger at that time. it has worked well for me with every gun I have ever used.
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Drifter - thanks for your inputs. I put some of your and Bob's suggestions to work today.
Shot 5 groups of 5, with the first 4 groups at 100 yards and the last group at 200. All off of a Harris bipod on a concrete bench, but adjusting POA by sitting position (i.e. no sandbags at all).
Group 1 was more of what I had been doing with exception of putting my left hand on the handguard. Still used a light/loose grip. My rifle apparently doesn't like loose holds!
Groups 2 - 5 were same basic position but holding the rifle much firmer into shoulder with left hand. With the exception of group 4, I took my time between shots (closing eyes for a 10 count, then re-opening to check aim). Group 4 I didn't bother closing eyes and had a much quicker shot cadence (with corresponding opening of group).
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BjornF16 Wrote:All off of a Harris bipod on a concrete bench, but adjusting POA by sitting position (i.e. no sandbags at all).
FWIW, when chasing for the best possible groups, a bipod on concrete wouldn't be my preferred method. It potentially makes the rifle more temperamental, requiring a firmer hold to maximize results. A bipod will tend to bounce on a hard surface, and it can be difficult to load the bipod in the exact same manner each time. POI shifts compared to other methods and / or from more forgiving surfaces are not uncommon.
That being said, one should test a weapon in the same application as its intended use, or in the manner that the shooter prefers. But sandbags front and rear from the bench would likely provide the best opportunity for tiny groups, and works best for me for load evaluation.
Drifter
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Thanks Drifter. I'll remove the bipod next time and try off the sandbags. I haven't done that since tightening down the scope.
I was going to suggest looking at the scope mount, though it seems you worked that out. Also be sure not to straddle the mount between the receiver and the handguard rail. That too can give horizontal stringing.
Your groups look more consistent now, which suggests to me that it was the mount.
jessegibson1978
Unregistered
Anticipating the shot is a very bad habit it will cause you to jerk or slap at the trigger usually causing the shot to go right and usually up for a right hand shooter. It's like shooting a bow if it doesn't surprise the crap out of you then you probably slapped the trigger. Just think squeeze the trigger. Have some one load a bolt gun for you fire some and have them at one point unknown to you hand you the rifle with an empty chamber you might be surprised by what is happening. If it's what I suspect it is you will immediately see the cause. Good luck and good shooting.
jessegibson1978
Unregistered
Woops should have read whole thread first but may help someone else.
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