I would sugget that a skilled hunter can kill just as many deer with a pump, bolt, lever, or even single shot as with a semiauto. I find it very amusing what some states consider unacceptable and others find desireable.
I was in a gun store in Tulouse France that had a sign that suggested you could practice with your suppressed Hamarelli semi auto pistol in your yard without disturbing your neighbor. I've been on culling shoots in south africa with a supressed Vore .243 pump that uses 20 round magazines shooting hundreds of springbok at night which was the preferred way, but semiauto's scare them. Then I've killed tons of big game myself with a single shot Blaser .22 hornet. One mans vinegar is another mans honey. It is all a bunch of ballony to make some feel good at the expense of others liberty.
Bob
feetpiece Wrote:Trigger/safety engagement is easily correctable using reflexive fire drills. With 5.56 of course because its cheaper...
How would you rate the Timney over the Wilson or JP?
The Timney is a fine single stage drop on unit that is very easy to install. The first AR that I owned and built was an Armalite AR-10 pattern on an Noveske N6 lower as we cannot own Armalite lowers in California. The AR-10 trigger only comes in 4 pound and also has a larger hammer so that hard large rifle primers get a good strike. The AR-10 trigger also works in Ar-15s and I decided to keep all my ARs the same and have continued to use the Timney AR-10 trigger in my rifles. The Timney trigger clamps in with some set screws and pushes up against the trigger pins preventing them from moving. It is a very nice design.
I was kinda hopeing someone out there besides me could say "I have hunted with a 6.5 Grendel in both a AR platform and a bolt action platform and I find the ______ superior in the following situations." Not having tried a different acton limits the grendel hunter in knowing if he is using the best tool for the job.
Posts: 3,087
Threads: 74
Joined: Mar 2011
My own son lambasted me 4 yrs. ago for going into our (traditional hunt spot- with traditional bolt guns)---and I show up w/ an AR-15 in Grendel caliber--6.5mm? my old man went bonkers, about the Japs-carcano-yadda-yadda. Jr's. beatch-sounded like this--- Really, dad-you feel the need to hunt w/ an assault rifle in northern mn.? I took them to our fave gravel pit - and wowwed them! Most want, or now own some version of this rifle. Me? I laugh, do what you want!!! F-anyone elses shortcomings about rifles. I am a hunter, not a trouble maker. Any thing I put in my hunting hand can be used as a weapon.= a pencil-knife-ruler, rope,, why cry about a rifle-- more people die from drugs, alcohol, car accidents.,-- than guns, especially the evil black rifle--- oooooooh... wait till the shiite hits the fan, ya----- who'll be your best neighbor pal then? All the weeenies of the world will cower behind you,, hoping you'll save them. hee-hee.
Posts: 2,075
Threads: 35
Joined: Mar 2011
hm2 clark Wrote:I was kinda hopeing someone out there besides me could say "I have hunted with a 6.5 Grendel in both a AR platform and a bolt action platform and I find the ______ superior in the following situations." Not having tried a different acton limits the grendel hunter in knowing if he is using the best tool for the job.
I would think the pros and cons of bolt vs. AR would be the same with any caliber.
Posts: 783
Threads: 65
Joined: Apr 2012
sneaky one Wrote:-- more people die from drugs, alcohol, car accidents.,--
Exactly - if people were really concerned about public safety - they would be just as upset by alcohol and tobacco as they are about firearms.
Posts: 3,087
Threads: 74
Joined: Mar 2011
Thats right rickO. Spread the word... get a rifle-it's safer than driving - or smoking-ha-ha! Our vices are the true end of us all- not guns, nor the mayan calender BULL shiite. Grow up americans. Don't buy into anyones hype, about weapons,= they have been around a long time-just like us as humans on a way cool planet! Cave dwellers used to protect themselves w/ sticks and stones-no-one tried to take those items away-by a govt. idea.- or a moral idea. Live free, vote out anyone that tries to stop that idea..
Posts: 667
Threads: 19
Joined: Mar 2011
Sneaky I don't think you understand the potential disaster that awaits us with the end of the Mayan calendar. Most Mayans are Mexican and half the Mexicans live in the US illegally. When Dec 13 2012 hits they won't know what day it is and they won't show up to their jobs. Since they are the only ones who have jobs, the country will fail rather quickly when they no-show. It isn't just that when the stars line up on Dec.12 and causes a polar shift that we have to worry about. That will be a good thing for us Free Americans in the northern latitudes. Just think Sneaky we will be helo hunting hogs and the guys in Texas will be hunting walrus. Am I the only one who sees this impending disaster looming.
ChellieWiles
Unregistered
I think the world is going to do what it's always done. Over the past 4 years, up until about 4 months ago, I lived in the woods...literally. I spent my days walking the solitary paths of the wrinkles across the face of our Nation. From Mount hood in Oregon, through the hole of Jackson and across through Vail and down into oklahoma, across the prairies into the pine cones of the carolinas and there is one thing I can say with absolute certainty, no two days were ever the same. The world tosses and turns and moans from time to time, but disaster will only loom in the horizons of men who don't know their future. Keep in mind where these prophecies are coming from, the internet. I remember the first few years of the net and all the bullshiite we told each other using this new kind of freedom...and damn if this next generation isn't eating it up. The world is the same as it's always been, forever in change, roll with it...savvy?
Posts: 783
Threads: 65
Joined: Apr 2012
I think it was the rapture. If your still stuck here on earth .... .... you gotta stay on thread. So...... Please explain why you think no rifle action is superior to another when hunting big game, but a semi auto is clearly superior in combat.
Posts: 3,087
Threads: 74
Joined: Mar 2011
The choice of bolt or semi- is really one's personal choice, laws in your area-past experiences. Most of us own , or have owned-all the guns that deliver a round to the chamber via -pump lever-semi-bolt, even if by hand=break open actions. They all work, if used as properly for game and target work--there is no true perfect gun for all-buy a variety ! I chose the Grr., for where I hunt. It can be a hoot to be controversial in the northern woods, also I have some toothy critters out in the dense woodlands of Northern MN. I decided I wanted some reliable compact firepower- in a midsize cal.----IF I ever needed it to save myself. The paranoia of 08-09 helped sales of AR's immensily. So I thought might as well get one while I still can. I love my choice,,, after the bugs were worked out!
Posts: 2,412
Threads: 31
Joined: Mar 2011
06-11-2012, 02:32 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2012, 02:36 AM by Variable.)
rickOshay Wrote:What just happened? LOL! Rasp just made a good joke.  I read the first sentence and thought "Aww crap, here we go...", then I kept on reading and laughed it up. I just hope the calendars allow for me to pay for my roof and someday still helo hunt hogs before it gets banned somehow.LOL!
ETA: for on topic--- I prefer an AR for hunting for familiarities sake, and don't see it as any more dangerous than a double barrel shotgun. If fudd forgets the safety on his double barrel after shooting a round, and then has his finger on the trigger... Are double barrel shotguns unsafe to hunt with? They sure seem to be accepted in the "sporting" community... 
This is coming from what used to be a die hard Bolt gun shooter ..600-1000yd comps were my ticket.. Precision shooting .. could not have given me an AR 10 years ago..
Now with the advent of CNC machining producing precision repeatable close tolerance parts, larger AR calibers, scopes and accessories for the AR . that is all I use now to hunt with.. Using mainly the grendel..
This is how I put it .. Always going for the kill shot .. but deer tend to move,, now I have an instant second shot if I get a bad shot . (hate to ever wound an animal) and the Ar is just as accurate as most bolt guns.. I can shorten the gun for climbing adjust the length if its really cold and I am wearing extra clothing , later on I can throw on a light and laser and play tactical or go to a 3 gun match.. They are just so adaptable..
for varmints, a AR with a quad rail I can mount a nite vision easily plus a magnifier, drop on a bipod you name it is easy to do with an AR
Bolt VS Semi question............I think Bolt. Why, because you can work up loads with heavier bullets for a wider range of hunting applications. I would think you can also squeeze out just a tad more velocity by seating the bullet out further and running a bit more pressure in a bolt rifle.
Semi VS Bolt for accuracy, fire power and ethical taking of game, namely the Deer, Whitetailed or what ever type you have in your back yard.......... I think most hunters as they get older believe that all you should need is one shot to take most game animals, shotgun hunters exempted. If you know you most likely will not have time for a second shot because you have to chamber another round then most seasoned hunters will make that first shot count and not need a follow up shot, dangerous game excluded. ........The bolt action looses nothing in the gas system and you can usually load better bullets then you can fit in a semi's magazine. This improves your chance of making ethical shots by icreasing your range and the power of your cartridge just a little.........The Ethical Taking of Game......this is a big one in many peoples eyes. The .223 is not legal for hunting big game here in VA and I am glad of it. There are way to many hunters out there who are not effecient enough with a rifle to make a clean one shot kill with the .223, period. I am not saying it will not kill effectivly in the hands of a marksman/hunter/vetern, it will. However it is not enough bullet for most shoulder shots and deer do run off and die in thickets when hit by 100gr .243 Win. rifle bullets, much less 75gr .223/5.56 bullets.
My first EBR was a Grendel and although I have not yet found a comfortable way to carry the rifle in the woods I bought it to hunt deer with and for the occasional Zombie if need be. I feel much more confident with the extra power of a bolt action 6.5x55, 7mm Mauser or .338 Win Mag. I am almost 52 and I can see the advantages of the AR platform in certain types of hunting like varmet hunting or predator hunting when follow up shots at range are more likely needed then not at moving game. The problem with most peoples image of a AR hunter is that they don't have enough rifle because they automatically think 5.56 or .223 when they see the Matel Toy. As big as the AR shooting crowd has become, the 6.5 Grendel crowd is still quite small and the general AR weapon system suffers from the stigma of not being enough weapon today, much the same as the 7mm Mauser or 6.5 Swedish Mauser did in the past when the 30-06 ruled the Big Game woods in the USA.
That's what I think if your interested.......
Good point smokepole. I too have not found a comfortable way to carry an AR while hunting. I use a friction strap-cant say I like it.
Quote:hm2 clark
So...... Please explain why you think no rifle action is superior to another when hunting big game, but a semi auto is clearly superior in combat.
1) Because big game hunting is a one-shot proposition in theory, and very close to that in practice. Combat is not.
2) Because success in combat is a matter of life and death. Hunting is not.
Given that, the efficiency advantage of a semi-auto over other actions in hunting pretty much vanishes. There is some small benefit in those few instances where a follow-up shot is necessary and presents itself, but it isn't like combat where the necessary follow up shots might require a belt feed.
Quote:I too have not found a comfortable way to carry an AR while hunting.
Try the Blue Force Gear Vickers two-point sling. I've been hunting with that for the last three years, and now use it on all of my rifles. I wont use a shoulder strap anymore. I now know why the KAR98 and K-31 have the sling mounts on the side - hands free carry makes climbing mountains sooooooo much easier.
Smoke Wrote:I can shorten the gun for climbing adjust the length if its really cold and I am wearing extra clothing , later on I can throw on a light and laser and play tactical or go to a 3 gun match.. They are just so adaptable.
And this is EXACTLY why I decided to build ARs for my boys. Rather than a traditional bolt or lever action, the telescoping-stock of the AR will grow right along with their individual lengths-of-pull. This way we don't play the youth stock/adult stock game. While my expense is greater (yeah ..., I know), these ARs will do it all or at least most of it. As for semiauto safety; train as you fight, fight as you trained. Mistakes can happen with anything, familiarity and good habits/training are the only cures.
|
