SDW Wrote:Random question for guys planning to, or are already attaching these radar chronos to your rifles: How does the recoil jolt and muzzle rise not affect read accuracy?
SDW,
Mine arrives tomorrow and I'm not planning on attaching it to the firearm.
There's a video on Youtube where a reviewer loses the second shot in the string while the Garmin is connected to the gun with an 'Area 419' arm.
My take (without any personal experience) is that connecting the Garmin to the firearm is almost unnecessary. If the radar is as forgiving in aiming as reviewers using tripods imply then why would you want to smash it around in the recoil? Sure, there are situations where you want to swing the barrel around to different targets and get velocities, but usually we are pointing it in one direction at one target.
The two Garmin connecting arm/mount businesses, '419' and 'Pro QD' are obviously wanting as much media exposure as they can get. Probably handed out free arms to all the reviewers. This gives an impression that connecting the radar to your gun is normal/preferred.
I used mine today too. Spent ~4 hours out in the 20°F MN winter with no problems. I recorded 17 various sessions from 22lr, 223 Rem, 9x19 and 6.5 Grendel.
I even stuck the Zero C1 on a tripod at 35 yds and shot past it with the 10/22. It registered all 10 shots! I shot maybe 12" left & 5" hi of the chrono.
CCI standard velocity
Xero C1 on bench: 1020 fps w/ 12 fps SD
Xero C1 @ 35 yds: 963 fps w/ 21 fps SD
The Garmin Xero C1 seems to pick up downrange velocity pretty well!
As someone else said, the thing works so well, it's boring.
I love it.
I also shot the 22/45 with the C1 set below on pistol setting, C1 left on pistol setting, and C1 left of rifle setting. Velocity was 5 fps faster set to rifle in a 5 shot string. SD was very similar between all three.
The only issue with the factory tripod that I've run into is not being able to adjust for uneven surfaces or shooting at high angles. I'm not sure how steep of an downhill shot you could perform and still get a good velocity recorded.
This is retail consumer grade product. It is dead nuts simple and easy to use, and equally reliable, accurate, and dependable. It is made for simple reliable handling and usage. The tripod, form factor, screen buttons interfacing are solid and dependable. It's a very good tinyblittle tripod that works and positions it perfectly.
The product unfortunately is not well configur3d for special and non standard or Expeet advanced usage. You can't get the actual trace data. The tripod is for a flat surface. But if desired, you can unscrew it, and screw on your own tripod system.
As to mounting it on your firearm - I don't think it will work, but it might. It detects if it is being moved and gives an error screen to alrt you.
While the value is worth the $600, I have evwry confidence the actual cost doubtful even breaks into 3 figures. Ah well, here we are.
01-08-2024, 03:51 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2024, 03:54 AM by SDW.)
Klem Wrote:SDW,
My take (without any personal experience) is that connecting the Garmin to the firearm is almost unnecessary. If the radar is as forgiving in aiming as reviewers using tripods imply then why would you want to smash it around in the recoil? Sure, there are situations where you want to swing the barrel around to different targets and get velocities, but usually we are pointing it in one direction at one target.
The two Garmin connecting arm/mount businesses, '419' and 'Pro QD' are obviously wanting as much media exposure as they can get. Probably handed out free arms to all the reviewers. This gives an impression that connecting the radar to your gun is normal/preferred.
Same situation here. I have no plan to connect it to a rifle (or handgun for that matter LOL). I was just curious, since many people make a big deal out of coming up with mounts. I have an assortment of decent lightweight tripods in various heights already, at my disposal. And I'd only be using my Xero for checking load velocities, firing at the same target location over and over every time, more or less. Not going to be swinging the muzzle to and froe.
I was going to mention, the Magnetospeed can (and must) be attached to the rifle to do its thing, but how it works is very different.
On the use of the included little tripod, It's pretty tiny and as basic as it gets. As mentioned, it doesn't allow any cant or up-down adjustments. But if you are shooting off a bench/table and the target's at the same elevation... so the rifle/pistol is held horizontal to the ground more or less, I can see the factory tripod working okay in that on situation.
Or you could mount a very small and simple ball head on it with a thumbscrew tensioner, like this here:
But then you run the risk of making the setup a little top-heavy and fall-over prone. Best thing is to buy an inexpensive simple tripod. Something similar to this, which adjusts from just 6.5" tall (if you have the footprint for it) up to over 60".
01-08-2024, 06:28 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2024, 06:31 AM by Klem.)
OK, mine arrived just now.
Came with 60% storage charge, more than enough to play around with and adjust settings. Downloaded the Garmin Shotview app to phone, paired with the Xero, and updated the radar's software - too easy. Took 60secs to update. Comes with default 50% brightness so increased that to 100%, plus changed it from black backlight to white. Changed display to average velocity, standard dev and extreme spread. Damn this thing is easy to use.
Tripod seems fine for a bench or hard ground. I'll use it unless it falls short. I suspect the after-market gun attachments are bordering on a gimmick.
I note its form factor 3.05"x2.4"x1.35", not including the tripod. I'm using an Otterbox 8000 for now. Waterproof to 100ft and bombproof.[ATTACH=CONFIG]20195[/ATTACH]
A Pelican Micro case should also work.
FYI, sold the Labradar for $750AUD ($500USD). The Garmin was $1,012AUD ($678USD) including discount for service affiliation. Freight to the southern hemisphere always adds a bit.
01-08-2024, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2024, 04:12 PM by SDW.)
Klem Wrote:FYI, sold the Labradar for $750AUD ($500USD). The Garmin was $1,012AUD ($678USD) including discount for service affiliation. Freight to the southern hemisphere always adds a bit.
Ah you're in Australia. I always assumed WA meant Washington State. So, Western Australia. Do you ever get to hang out with Mark and Sam, after work?
Kinda kidding there somewhat. WA is huge and I don't know part they live in.
FWIW, this is how I envision using mine most of the time. Tripod is my little Slik "Sprint Mini II" tripod. Slik now makes a Sprint Mini III, which is basically the same. Comes with this really simple ball head that has a QD + shoe. Also comes in a convenient stuff sack. I'll probably use this setup in lieu of the supplied tripod, though there's no sense in not bringing that one along too, considering how small and stowable it is.
Anyone wanting something similar, just look in the "travel tripod" category.
The legs only (no the ball head) go down to about 6" and up to about 42".
As for aiming angle the Garmin has a 52 degree emitter angle to the front. Super forgiving compared to the Labradar. Probably why Garmin does not emphasize aiming in the instructions - just point it downrange. https://youtu.be/3ZskpJzX-XI
This means after-market rifle mounts like 'Area 419' are not needed, perhaps even a gimmick. The Garmin works fine out of the box and is very forgiving for aiming angle. There is no need to subject the radar to recoil it was never designed to take. Nor do you need a better quality tripod to aim it.
As for structure downrange, the Garmin is also forgiving. Here is a 100M range with a hanger 50M to the front and bullet trap at the back. The Labradar was always inconsistent and constantly dropping shots, but the Garmin worked flawlessly over a two hour session. At the end of two hours the battery had depleted to 75%.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]20201[/ATTACH]
I note you need the phone app to transfer range results to a computer. Although the computer recognizes the Garmin as an external hard drive when plugged in via its USB C plug there does not seem to be any usable session files to download. Plugging it in is more about recharging and updating software.
This means after-market rifle mounts like 'Area 419' are not needed, perhaps even a gimmick. The Garmin works fine out of the box and is very forgiving for aiming angle. There is no need to subject the radar to recoil it was never designed to take. Nor do you need a better quality tripod to aim it.
Thanks for the in-depth report, and the links. Looking forward to trying mine. Maybe I won't bother with my bigger tripod then, as a rule. I my though about using a bigger was was largely stability. Less likely to get knocked over and off a table while doing something klutzy LOL And also, in my case I shoot off the ground out in the desert. The Garmin down low might not have enough line of sight over the uneven ground (and small vegetation here and there) forward of the shooting position. It's all hypothetical until I actually get out to the desert and try it. Might be that the included stand works just fine, placed along side the legs of the bipod.
And yeah, that Area 419 type mount, gimmick might be just what it is. How important is it really to read velocities when you're "on the move". I could see maybe if you're standing in tall grass and don't have a table... or tripod like mine. But I figure, there must be some loss in accuracy if the radar unit is getting jerked back by recoil at whatever FPS while reading the departing bullet's speed. Come to think of it, the Magnetospeed would have the same problem, yet no one's complained that I'm aware of. So maybe that's not a concern. Or maybe the MSp takes it reading before the muzzle even starts to recoil backward? I dunno.
While the new garmin sounds really good, Really good, I will be waiting budget-wise until sometime later. In the meantime my magnetospeed is serving me well.
I don't think the mgspd has quite that problem above because it's simpler, and only sensor-blade/rifle are linked: the bullet, barrel and sensor all have to move together for those few microsec at barrel exit. And there aren't any active components in the blade to be affected by recoil. The one weakness it has, if any, is that it uses a poly strap to attach, so if the strap allows relative movement by being just a tad loose, then you do get inaccurate reads by the blade jerking backwards that little tiny bit. So want to make sure from time to time that the strap stays tight and the blade has not moved.
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
Prior to release the Garmin was used a lot mounted to the rifles, including by a member of their development team. No issues were found even though Garmin has their disclaimer. Shooters who compete in PRS want to have the unit mounted on their rifle for obvious reasons, (positioning, barricades, etc).
I, personally, don't see the need for it as it has such a wide range regarding positioning, but I don't compete in PRS.
This thing is the easy button. Turn it on, access the menu, plop it down, shoot, record, transfer to your phone and then computer for record.
01-15-2024, 04:49 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2024, 04:55 PM by Zeneffect.)
Mine finally arrived last Friday, 6 days after the original delivery date.
First chance to play with it for real is today... have only been able to set it up in a hallway and shoot a nerf dart over it. 108fps was the highest I saw it register... it missed a few shots but they might have been below the 100fps threshold. Nerf pistol might be underpowered and the "fast" shots would be a hair over 100fps
grayfox Wrote:While the new garmin sounds really good, Really good, I will be waiting budget-wise until sometime later. In the meantime my magnetospeed is serving me well.
I don't think the mgspd has quite that problem above because it's simpler, and only sensor-blade/rifle are linked: the bullet, barrel and sensor all have to move together for those few microsec at barrel exit. And there aren't any active components in the blade to be affected by recoil. The one weakness it has, if any, is that it uses a poly strap to attach, so if the strap allows relative movement by being just a tad loose, then you do get inaccurate reads by the blade jerking backwards that little tiny bit. So want to make sure from time to time that the strap stays tight and the blade has not moved.
Just be aware the resale value of that magnetospeed is falling hard right now. LabRadars are tanking, i got $300 for my $600 labradar. Prices are still falling
Budget focused uses are getting $100 skyscreen rigs. Advanced tech users willing to spend, are dumping their LabRadars and Magnetos and all going Garmin. Sell it and that can defray the Garmin cost.
01-15-2024, 05:21 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2024, 05:30 PM by Zeneffect.)
Yep. Just sold my magnetospeed + mk machine bayonet + xfr box + working usb-c to 1/8" for 300. If garmin runs a sale, they will have a monopoly for as long as they run it.
If they made the app like a live view with on screen shot updates + audio.... that would made the app end far better.
I also think the price is falling hard because market saturation, it will bounce back up once the market stabilizes. Everyone who has a magnetospeed, wanted a labradar but didn't want to break one, went out and got a garmin. I would think there are quite a few labradar users not going garmin yet due to labradar has a couple extra features the garmin does not (yet?) If I had caved and got a labradar I would be in that camp. To me it's a clear upgrade from magnetospeed but from labradar it's not as clear to me. Durability, ease of use, portability, yes it's an upgrade. Features? Not so much... not yet at least. Firmware and app updates can do a lot these days so maybe is the best I can hope for.
