Just thought I'd get that question out there, since I have a bunch of new brass. Read here that neck sizing of it is in order, prior to first use.
Up until now I've only ever used their neck-sizing die for .303BR. I'm sure some people here use fancier setups, like from Redding, Forster I guess, etc. with floating collets(?) Lee dies are just so darned affordable. Like, $19 for me at the moment due to a birthday-pricing deal. Anything wrong with Lee's design for just neck sizing?
I should add, I've read the warning about using Lee FS dies on Grendel brass. As a precaution, I switched to a Forster FS die.
All I use is a Redding body die and a Lee collet die to load for AR 6.5GRR, still looking to buy Competiton setting die but other than that I'm good to go!
Starline, lapua... new brass only needed expander mandrel as neck tension is way tight, and not very uniform/concentric anymore after packaging, shipping, handling, etc.
Thanks guys. I, ah, heh heh, already loaded 100 cases of Starline with a couple of different bullets. Nothing I am expecting high precision out of anyway. These two batches are mostly just gen purpose, sighting-in/zeroing kind of ammo. Thankfully.
Zeneffect, sounds like neck sizing the new Starlines would be the last thing I'd want to do to them then? I did chamfer the inside of the necks though to take of the burring. Bullets seemed to go in just fine. And the only checking I gave empty brass was to drop them into my Sheridan case gauge to make sure they were not oversized.
Just wondering if I should go ahead and buy that Lee collet die.
I would! Zene is right about the necks being tight out of the box on the SL cases, seeing's how I already have a Sinclair neck turning set up and the body for the mandrels that fit any caliber I load for IMO it's wise open them up a little before neck sizing the SL brass with the LCD, JMO
Thanks Mark. Since you're sold on it, i wonder if you have an opinion on this negative review I found on Lee's site:
Quote:Used to love the Lee collet die. I bought a new on for my .308 Win and come to find out they changed the way they make the collet.Now it is shorter so in flares the mouth of the case neck, better bullet seating concentricity they say. I hate it, I wish they would of left it alone and just left it as a custom option. It creates more problems that it solves. Everyone's case prep isn't the same. Just because a couple of guys think it's a good idea you have ten others that don't. Stupid
The way this guy ("Andrew") describes the newer die design, I don't understand what's bad about it. Might even be exactly what we'd want? Is this guy nuts?
10-30-2023, 12:14 AM (This post was last modified: 10-30-2023, 11:28 AM by Klem.)
SDW,
I use Lee collet dies in other calibres, but not Grendel. It's a neck sizing die so unsuitable for auto loaders. For Grendel I use a standard Forster FL die with the expander ball removed. Not their bushing dies - their cheapest no-frills full sizer. Removing the ball sizes the outside of the neck only, but you still get concentricity. The inside diameter ends up .004" less than the bullet which is a nice tight grip for an auto loader. If you have the Forster already this is all you need for an auto loader. And it will probably work perfectly well for a bolt gun.
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The final grip depends on the thickness of the case neck. .004" is with Lapua cases which are .0135" thick. Other brands will be different. I don't know what Starline is, but even if it is thinner it will still impart a decent grip with the expander ball removed.
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If it's for a bolt gun you could try semi full sizing with the Forster, backing it out slightly and see how that goes. Or get the Lee collet. Nothing wrong with their collet dies...just everything else they sell. To fine tune the bullet grip you can spin the mandrel of a collet die in a drill press and take a bit off with sandpaper. Obviously you can't go the other way to add thickness.
For $17 Forster will custom neck hone a new die, which is another (more expensive) option.
Thanks Klem. The advice is much appreciated. I think that Forster die is the one I have. And I have their nice micrometer BR seating die.
And just to clarify, I was thinking of using the Lee collet die purely for neck-sizing new unfired brass---wouldn't use it in any other situation; my Grendels are all semi-autos. I read that as being advised in a different thread here. But above, Zen and Mark were saying that Starline brass is if anything, too tight on the necks, out of the box.
I still don't know what to make what that guy was saying about his Lee collet die. See post #6. Ravings of a loonie?
If you're only loading Grendel ammunition for auto-loaders then neck sizing dies are not needed. Just size the new cases with your FL Forster. May as well remove the expander ball and see if that works with Starline - do it to a couple of cases first and measure the OD of the neck. The expander ball unscrews from the stem.
Don't know what the Lee reviewer is on about. I am not aware of Lee collet dies that taper the neck. If that were the case then another die would be needed to squeeze the neck back to spec after bullet seating. They do have this option in their handgun dies however. Bells can be imparted in the powder die/station. The bullet seater is then designed to crimp the bell back to spec. Or you can crimp the neck with a taper or roll crimp die on the last station of a progressive press. Not in rifle dies however.
I forgot to add that I also use the Lee crimp die to put a light crimp on the case, I also have done some measurements, brass, the SL cases out of the box, neck od measurements .287 sized .288 LCD, seated bullet .290 crimp at the mouth .289, Klem what do you think? good or bad?
10-30-2023, 12:14 PM (This post was last modified: 10-30-2023, 12:30 PM by Klem.)
Mark,
Sounds fine - whatever works to get the tightest groups - for me, case life is important but secondary.
I understand you use a Redding body die and do the necks with a Lee collet. Your bullet grip is .002" and while half mine we both know this not the full story. Grip also depends on how elastic (ductile) those Starline cases are, and how much shank is in contact. Bearing in mind case elasticity slowly weakens as it hardens with each shot. Annealing restores some elasticity however it's not really needed. You'll probably discard the case long before it needs annealing.
You mention crimping the rounds which is a sure fire way of keeping the bullet from shifting in an auto loader. Doesn't matter then how much the bullet is held by the neck prior to crimping. Crimping is an extra step in the loading process however, and Lee crimp dies tend to focus their crimp at the case mouth. You can see the thin visible chomp it leaves. Redding's taper crimp die is more forgiving on necks as it squeezes the whole neck, not just mauling the mouth.
As for whether crimping is better than gripping...I ran a test a while back shooting groups with each and found no difference in precision. Given this, as crimping is an extra step I stopped doing it and just hold the bullet with as much grip as possible. I anneal so this helps keep them elastic for longer. The Grendel seems a lot more forgiving with case life than the larger 6.5x47 calibre. With 6.5x47 the primer pockets blow out after a few shots, but not the Grendel - it just 'keeps on keeping on'.
What you could do is check your Lee CD grip without adding a crimp. Load your brass as normal, but not crimp. Then load them into the AR letting the BCG feed and slam into battery from the mag. Then manually eject without firing. Measure how much (if any) the bullet has shifted. If it doesn't shift then there's no need to crimp. To make sure the crimp isn't influencing group size you can fire them with and without the crimp.
Here's the evidence that in my case crimping and not crimping gives equal precision. If anything, not crimping yields slightly better results on target, but not by much. 4rd groups at 100 in MOA, from a bench rested Lilja barrel. Crimping was with a Redding taper crimp:
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Very good! my new 18'' upper showed up today! so I get to play with that next time around! next time I get to shoot I will take my calipers and check if there's any movement, my crimp die on my last loads, the die was set so it just kissed the neck, I have changed that setting on the new loads I have ready to go, will see if my accuracy changes? and Thanks for your reply Klem!
